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Problem with AES input on 8341A

purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Hello everyone,

I bought a pair of second hand Genelec 8341A from one guy,and them has some weird problem.
When I connect then with AES input,it will suddenly lost sound for some seconds during playing music.
I tried with a pair of Dante AVIO AES3 adapter and a cheap no-brand XMOS USB interface.
When use AVIO and connect them saprately (without using the AES out port on the speaker),
The problem will come out when sample rate are higher than 48khz.
If use a 110Ω XLR wire connect two speaker, the problem will come out in all sample rate, and it will more frequently on Higher sample rate.And LED is alaways green.
I have a nuprime dac-9 for analog input, and it dosen't has problem on any AES singal input mentioned above (AVIO/USB interface,any sample rate).
Did anyone encounter similar problem before? If so, how to deal with it?

antong, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Padawan Viestejä: 76 Liittymispäivä: 12.6.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Hello, purelin!

I'm sorry to hear about the problem! Please, contact us via service@genelec.com and include serial number of the speaker. We will look into it!

Anton,
Factory service team

jamesnorth, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 4 Liittymispäivä: 13.12.2019 Viimeisimmät viestit

I had an issue with AES dropouts with my 8341As (brand new).

Firstly - make sure you are using the shortest possible cable ... even though it can technically work with 10m cable that cable has to be very expensive for it to maintain perfect connectivity.  I ended up using 1.8 and 3m cables for my 2.1 setup in my studio after buying 10m ones first.

Secondly - don't get super cheap cable (I don't know what that cable is).

It's possible the Genelec DAC is a bit more sensitive than other in/out AES stuff.

clearsignal, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Padawan Viestejä: 50 Liittymispäivä: 2.3.2018 Viimeisimmät viestit

@jamesnorth

Firstly - That cable-length rule you are promulgating is not true. This is not a personal attack; merely to ensure other people are not led astray. Maximum recommended AES/EUB cable is 360 meter (I run 25 meter and 17 meter cables in my home installation with no issue whatsoever). 

Secondly - It's not a matter of cost, rather spec compliance. Stick to a reputable pro brand--Mogami, Canare Belden and Gotham--and you're golden. And if you're handy with the iron solder, it can come out cheap. (Canare DA202 runs at $1.5 per meter, and a Nuetrik XLR plug, gold plated, can be had for around $3.5). 

@purelin

My hunch is that electronics in one of your monitors malfunctions. I suggest you connect one speaker at the time and test if you can isolate the problem. You may indeed discover one culprit requiring a repair. 

jamesnorth, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 4 Liittymispäivä: 13.12.2019 Viimeisimmät viestit

Very likely it's to do with compliance then - I tried 3 different brands of 10m cable and only 1.8/3m versions work great but their 10m versions don't!

 

I found dropouts and incorrect sample rate playback issues occurred everything from every few mins to every few hours with 10m from the 3 brands I tried.

 

 

purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Both of my 8341A has same problem, I have tried with this two setup:
Dante AVIO -> one 8341A -> Nuprime dac-9 , 48k sample rate
Dante AVIO out->one 8341A -> same Dante AVIO in, 48k sample rate
Problem will occur on both,and much less frequently compare to 96k sample rate which will not even play seamless in 30 seconds.
The customer servicer on my country just consist Dante AVIO is so cheap that the jitter was too high to make singal clear.

clearsignal, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Padawan Viestejä: 50 Liittymispäivä: 2.3.2018 Viimeisimmät viestit

@jamesnorth

Out of curiosity, can you share the brand/s that have failed you?

@purelin

 I believe your problem arises from the Dante AIOV, likely inherent or setup related. I have no firsthand experience with those dongles, but you could easily establish if that's the case  by testing your speakers with native AES2 signal or even SPDIF (AES3 source -> 8341A). Is there a way you could hook the monitors to either a streamer with digital outputs, or a DAC with SPDIF/AES2 output, or a USB/SPDIF converter (such as Schit Eiter)?

purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

@clearsignal @jamesnorth @antong

After few hours deeply debugging, I finally found the problem source.
Not the 8341A, nor the Dante avio interface.
Even my cheap usb interface works fine on 192k 24bit ,but it sound , you know, very crap.
Yeah.......the problem source is........ GLM !!
And also, it must connect to a computer with software running.I don't have a Mac so I would say it must connect to windows running with GLM.
So, I assume the problem is a software or firmware bug as the customer servicer said that the box is hard to broke.
If anyone could running my config (newest firmware,connect to GLM with software running, and use AES input sample rate more than 96k smoothly),please send me a message, I will know it not a bug. 
By the way, the GLM software on windows just a little buggy in my eyes.

purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Oh, I forgot to say:
The reason I use GLM all the time is I use both AES and analog input.
I have a remote to change input so I need software running(once it closed the change group command will not working anymore).
AES for gaming (I build a four channel configuration with Dante network), analog for music.

antong, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Padawan Viestejä: 76 Liittymispäivä: 12.6.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Hello, purelin!


We are pretty sure the problem is in the electronics of your speakers. It is very unlikely that GLM adapter itself is faulty, but it can possibly trigger those kind of problems in the speaker. Please, contact your local authorized service for warranty repair.

Anton,
Factory service team

tplink201, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 5 Liittymispäivä: 16.8.2018 Viimeisimmät viestit

I got a similar problem with 7360A + 2 *8341A

 

The system does not work well for audio signal on and above 96kHz.

 

Here is the detailed system setup.

Windows 10 PC ---USB cable---> RME ADI-2 pro FS R BE ---Mogami Gold AES 20 feet cable---> 7360A

  ---Mogami Gold AES 12 feet cable---> right 8341A  ---Mogami Gold AES 12 feet cable---> left 8341A

 

GLM 3.2.0 with all firmware up-to-date. The GLM software is online when I am playing music.

 

The RME ADI-2 pro FS R BE interface outputs standard AES3-1992 signal, therefore 20feet should not be a problem. The cables are also Mogami professional cables with 110Ohm impedance. No impedance mismatch in the signal chain.

 

I use foobar 2000 to play music, it is bit-perfect after checking with the RME test signal.

If I play music on and under 48kHz, it is OK. But if I play 96khz or 192khz music, Genelec systems fail, producing pop/cracking noise. If I play 192khz music, the red light on 8341 will flash. Music will play for 0.5s then get stuck for 0.5s then keep looping.

 

I have contacted the Genelec service for help.

purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Please check the GLM software when playing music, I notice that the speaker counting on the bottom will change when speaker fails, if you too, the problem we meet are same.
The problmen is GLM try to restart the speaker when input with high sample rate AES singal (maybe cause by mishandle speaker's report data).

tplink201, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 5 Liittymispäivä: 16.8.2018 Viimeisimmät viestit

Thanks! Correct, if I play 192kHz music then 0 device is detected. Did you solve it without sending the monitors back to factory?

purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

There a some solution tested available in my config.
1. if only use AES input and need glm to control volume or power control, buy a rf remote or volume knob, then connect glm box to usb power supply.
2. if need change input sometime, you can close software when you don't need changing it. may not work if you already input high sample AES. Also ,the rf remote will not work when connect to PC with no software.
3. if you using both input and hotswap them, you could only stay below 48Khz.

tplink201, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 5 Liittymispäivä: 16.8.2018 Viimeisimmät viestit

I tried #2 method it indeed works! 

BTW, the Genelec tech team confirmed that the 8341As are defective. I will send them back to fix this problem.

 

Thank you for discovering these emergency methods! I can use the speakers until sending them out.

tplink201, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 5 Liittymispäivä: 16.8.2018 Viimeisimmät viestit
purelin, muokattu 1 Vuosi sitten.

RE: Problem with AES input on 8341A

Youngling Viestejä: 9 Liittymispäivä: 27.3.2020 Viimeisimmät viestit

Hey,did you get your 8341 repaired? If so, did the repair team mention which part of speaker has fault?