Genelec Community Forum has been archived

Thank you for all the years of Community discussions and activity!

The time has come for us to retire the community forums, but we will keep everything available for reading. There is a lot of valuable content written over the years, and you'll be able to access all of that. However, no new posts can be written, or old posts modified.

If you have questions, we recommend you use the Support function on the bottom right corner to contact our Customer Support directly.

Alternatively, if you wish to engage in a community discussion with other people, there are many active forums available. There is also an active, fan managed GENELEC COMMUNITY in Facebook, and many Genelec employees are active in the discussions there.

We are sorry for any possible inconvenience this may cause you, but we hope to hear from you through the other channels mentioned above.

Genelec Support

Keskusteluryhmät

dac recommandations

dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

I'm interested in Genelec 8050 studio monitors to use it for my computer for listening and casual gaming purpouses. I've been searching and reading about how to connect these to my PC. First I thought I'd go with an RME FireFace ucx but then I thought I might be better off with an audiophile grade dac.

I already have an internal PCIe Creative Titanium HD soundcard in my computer which I'd like to use for gaming. I don't have an external volume knob and I would really need it for practical reasons.

Now, I've got my eyes on two dacs, namely Grace Design m920 and Benchmark DAC2 HGC. Which of these two would be the best pick? I would like to have some less expensive options that would really suit the 8050 in performance and abilities.

When I look at dacs, or audio interface, I find it important to have digital imput, toslink and spdif with at least 24bit/192kHz.
And of most importance is audio quality.

What's the best way for me to connect my computer to 2x Genelec 8050 monitors? Which dac or alternative way would suit Genelec 8050's on my pc the best?

My room is a living room, about 5x7 meters.

I hope to hear from you.

Best regards,
Dimoroc
sound-phobia, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Youngling Viestejä: 13 Liittymispäivä: 16.9.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
sound-phobia, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Youngling Viestejä: 13 Liittymispäivä: 16.9.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,
Thank you for your reply.

Lynx hilo seems very interesting but it seems like overkill for me with all features I won't be using and its a bit too expensive for me here in Netherland.

What is there good about the Roland Super UA? It seems very portable but is it technically better and better sounding and suiting the Genelec 8050's than their Capture series? I see it mentions audiophile sound. Would it suit me better than the RME BabyFace Pro?
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,
Don´t know your preferences of "audio quality" but reading your 24bit/192kHz statement I reckon at least a "fair" DAC is to be expected. Right?

There are currently tons of alternatives on the DAC scene. The innovation momentum is higher than ever I´d say and during the past few years a bunch of newbies has entered the arena with a price/performance rate that is of great benefit for us.

The examples given by other persons here are all great performers but I´ll add a few others as well. Since I notice "gaming" I kind of conclude there might be headphones involved somewhere in the equation? In the DAC/headphone amp section there are some very interesting alternatives you should dig in to. Even though you do not use headphones, these products are worth being on your research and short list anyway. All following products are rather new on the market and utilises "latest technology".
As mentioned, innovation momentum is high today and DAC:s entering the market as "soon" as four-five years ago do not include some of the specifications these guys offer. Another benefit is the mobility. These units are small as well and easliy connect to your smart phone, offering the possibility to bring it along with headphones...or your 8050:s. 8-) ;)

Asceding price:
-M2Tech Hiface DAC. Bypassing computer sound card. Sampling rates up to 24/192. Small sice fitting the computer USB. No volume control. Mini-jack output.
-iFi Micro iDSD. DAC capable of native DSD conversion, i.e. up tp 11.2MHz (yes, mega Hz). Volume Control, headphone amp. USB input, SPDIF input/output, RCA output. Single TRS output.
-Chord Mojo. DAC capable of DSD conversion with sampling rates up to up to 11.2MHz (PCM). Volume Control, headphone amp., USB, coax and optical input. Double TRS output. "WHAT HIFI AWARDS 2015".
-Chord 2Cute DAC. DAC capable of DSD conversion with sampling rates up to up to 2.8MHz (PCM). USB, coax and optical input. RCA output. "STARS OF CES 2015. WHAT HIFI".
-Chord Hugo. DAC capable of DSD conversion with sampling rates up to up to 2.8MHz (PCM). USB input, USB HD input, RCA coax and optical input. RCA output, double mini-jack outout, TRS output. "WHAT HIFI AWARDS 2014".

Good luck!
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thank you for your post.

I think the dac must have balanced output for the Genelec monitors, and digital in connections 24bit/192kHz and a volume knob.

The Chord's are really looking good, but the Hugo is just way too expensive. For that price I'd rather first buy Genelec's three way monitors instead.

The Grace m920's have good price drops on massdrop and I think that is quite the maximum of my budget, not more than 1900 euro. Anyone have experiences with m920 plus Genelec or other recommandations?

Thanks.
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thank you for your post.

I think the dac must have balanced output for the Genelec monitors, and digital in connections max 24bit/192kHz and a volume knob.

The Chord's are really looking good, but the Hugo is just way too expensive. For that price I'd rather first buy Genelec's three way monitors instead.

The Grace m920's have good price drops on massdrop and I think that is quite the maximum of my budget, not more than 1900 euro. Anyone have experience of m920 with Genelec or other recommandations?

Thanks.



RCA or TRS output will do just fine for the 8050:s. The XLR-XLR will benefit over longer runs though but if you use it in a 5x7m living room I reckon 2x3m is what you need...which is not long in an XLR context.

Well, the DAC:s I state is capable of much higher resolution than 24/192. If your digital input signal is lower than 24/192 the DAC adopt to that. The "iFi micro iDSD" do have a volume knob and will convert PCM formats up to 768kHz and DSD (DoP) up to 11.2MHz. I.e. substantially higher than 24bit/192kHz.

The Chord Mojo do have button volume adjustment. Maybe not the most conventient but still a volume adjustment. The Mojo can connect to the 8050:s with TRS-XLR cables.

Future will possibly/hopefully offer higher resolution than the majority of Music available today and 24/192 will most likely be expected as "the past " in a couple of years. There are hig res. music to download, exceeding the 192kHz by far and from my point of view it will be a pity not enable to play them due to choice of DAC.
I have currently a Benchmark DAC1 PRE which inhibit me from playing DSD files for instance. I wouldn´t say DSD is the future format but still, there are PCM formats over 192kHz at present day that Benchmark(s) will not convert to it´s intended resolution.
If you´re fine with ripping CD:s (16bit/44.1kHz) or playing Itunes, Spotify or similar a 24/192 DAC is more than enough. I know. The Benchmark DAC1 PRE is some kind of equipment which I really like but I still like the idea of enjoying close-to-analogue sound from a native DSD file. The Benchmark(s) can´t.

Don´t know your smart phone (or if you even have one) but regarding DSD there is an indication interesting to study. The iPhone 6 have abuilt in DSD player, sending native DSD files through the USB output. Connecting a DSD compatible DAC, you can play the highest available format on the market with pocket size products. Future is here. The big bold old DAC:s are already ancient at present day. ;)
Mmm, there are DSD players for other iPhone models as well but if the latest Apple iPhone include a native DSD player, well there must/should be something around the corner. Just trend scouting of mine. :mrgreen:
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
With other studio monitors, I had them connected to my Creative x-fi titanium HD by rca to xlr and I had weird noises when I was doing computer intensive stuff like opening a game. I thought this really was because of grounding issue. The cables were not long, like 1,5 meters. I never had this on my previous pc speakers Corsair SP2500.

Do you think the Grace m920 might suit the Genelec for it's price? It uses some mobile version of the Sabre 9018-M or so.

I don't know how I feel by such a tiny dac like the Chord's connecting them to 8050 Giants, for the budget.

And how do you control the volume on the Chord Hugo mobile and 2QUTE?
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Well, the Chord do have a unique and quirky design. :lol: The Hugo volume is adjusted by scrolling the volume "knob" on the top. It shifts colors indicating volume level. Very...unique. Hehe.

The m920 looks great. Both estetically and in regards of technical specifications. Great reviews as far as I've found. A competitor might be the Benchmark DAC2 HGC but the Grace looks more tempting in my eyes. In a "Chord Hugo vs. m920" web search one can notice "winners" in both.
For a desktop (or locker) position the size might not be a parameter. For me it is. I love the idea of tiny things making absolutely marvellous performance. The fewer, and smaller, stuff around, the "better". Part of this is due to our kids at home. I hade to downsize from previous (really marvellous) Event Opal speakers due to weight and risk of injuries...if falling. Starting the downsize track have made me search for best size/performance rate.

Last. If you find a DAC without volume knob, you can always add a Genelec 9000A. Great stuff. I have one (corresponding: 9310A) to my Genelec 8330SAM speakers. Good looks. Great use. The definition of "straight forward" and intuitive volume adjustment. :D
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
How do you connect the Genelec 9000A or 9310A to soundcard and studio monitors?

I have a sound card in my computer, Creative x-fi Titanium HD, and only has unbalanced rca output and digital out spdif. The only issue here is that I get weird humm noises by computing when I connect it to studio moniturs using unbalanced rca to balanced XLR and that's not something I would be doing, I would unplug it right away. I did not had this issue on my previous speaker set Corsair sp2500 which I had connected by rca to rca.

How would I connect the volume controller in such setup and do you know a way to solve this humm issue? What's an ideal setup? USB (audiophile?) DAC with volume knob or pro audio interface?

I Always used to think that an internal pci-x soundcard was much better than one over usb as I thought USB would cause more cpu usage.

I did not yet buy the speakers and I'm still collecting info about buying the speaker system in parts. What benefit does the SAM series give me over the 8050? Would the connection to my soundcard be easier? What else is needed other than the SAM GLM kit?

Thanks.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
I'm considering the SPL Phonitor 2 to use with my pci-e Creative Titanium HD soundcard. Is this considered to be a good way? Since new high end coming in the future.
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
How do you connect the Genelec 9000A or 9310A to soundcard and studio monitors?

I do have the 9310A following the SAM GLM kit. The setup is somewhat different and I haven´t used the 9000A but according to Genelec brand-smart-solutions-in-general I guess it should be pretty straight forward to fit. A Y-split Cable follows the kit and you need to add a few to fit the intended speakers. The 9310A fits with only one wire into a "hub" used to connect computer software (GLM) to the speakers. The 9310A volume knob sits on the shelf and looks, and feel, great.

An alternative is the "Griffin Technology NA16029 PowerMate USB Multimedia Controller". A piece of kit been around for some time but it does it´s job. Just read about it, never used it.


I have a sound card in my computer, Creative x-fi Titanium HD, and only has unbalanced rca output and digital out spdif. The only issue here is that I get weird humm noises by computing when I connect it to studio moniturs using unbalanced rca to balanced XLR and that's not something I would be doing, I would unplug it right away. I did not had this issue on my previous speaker set Corsair sp2500 which I had connected by rca to rca.

How would I connect the volume controller in such setup and do you know a way to solve this humm issue? What's an ideal setup? USB (audiophile?) DAC with volume knob or pro audio interface?

I can´t answer for the humming noise. Might be an RCA-XLR cable root cause. There are different ways to fit the RCA cores to XLR cores in the connector. A hint might be found in here: http://www.genelec.com/electronics-and-cabling. Look for the question "I have unbalanced outputs - RCA or 1/4" Mono Jack - on my equipment. How do I connect my monitors?"

Can´t recommend a ideal setup since that most likely is subjective anyway. Even the "objective" pro audio setup will have subjective pros and cons.
But I have a personal ideal setup I will soon "launch". :) All DA converting takes place in a DSD compatible DAC. Three input units: computer via USB, CD transport via SPDIF, PS3 via optical. The DAC RCA output connects to a Genelec F Two subwoofer via RCA-RCA. The F Two connect to a pair of Genelec 8330A via analogue XLR-XLR. Since the DAC hold a volume knob I don´t need to use the 9310A volume knob following the GLM kit. I still have this option to use if I choose a DAC without volume controll, i.e. Chord 2Cute for instance.


I Always used to think that an internal pci-x soundcard was much better than one over usb as I thought USB would cause more cpu usage.

I would dare to say there are different ambitions for internal-computer-soundcard-developers and external soundcard ditto:s. The M2Tech gear derive from HiFi business. Your soundcard developer most likely derive from computing...with other superior priorities than "sound". Internal soundcards are most likely developed with the hardware settings the prerequisits. External soundcards will of course adopt to hardware and software, but the superior goal is (hopefully) to offer the listener best sound, not best adoptation to the computer hard- and software.


I did not yet buy the speakers and I'm still collecting info about buying the speaker system in parts. What benefit does the SAM series give me over the 8050? Would the connection to my soundcard be easier? What else is needed other than the SAM GLM kit?

Aha. Interesting. You are under research?! ;) Nice. Love that phase...
Well, the 8050 is big piece of speaker. I used to have a pair of Event Opal wich can be somewhat compared to the 8050:s. Big. Bulky. Heavy. But great! And you get the bass depth you need without need of subwoofer addition.
The SAM system, i.e. 82X0 and 83X0 models, gives you the possibility to adjust filer settings in the speakers. You kind of change the speaker characteristics and adopt to the room. You can adjust the frequency respons and get a much flatter frequency curve. The GLM software measure a test tone and present the result. You can manually adjust the filters for your personal taste. Kind of DSP that can only find in much (MUCH) more expensive HiFi speaker, such as Meridian etc. This is perfect for persons like myself, not having the time to work with room acoustics. Room acoustics is of course the preffered way. For persons on the road, the SAM is great. You can easily adopt to the environment where you don´t have the possiblity to work with room acoustics.

Taking this into the 8050 equation I´d say you might face low frequency "issues" with big(ger) speakers. The 8050 go Deep but might cause unwanted behaviour. A 8240 is a smaller speaker but still offer plenty of depth. The 8240 can be a better choice in some environments.

So, start doing a "Genelec SAM" search on the web and read about it. I like my 8330SAM a lot. Even Before I even applied the SAM functionality.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thank you. That is so much information!

How do the SAM series connect to a PC? Just like the 80xx with an audio interface, XLR to TRS/rca? What does an MC-3+ Smart Clock USB actually do? Would this setup needs an audio interface too or would I just connect my soundcard to the MC-3+ Smart Clock USB unit but still needing a volume knob?

Thanks.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
What does it mean with 2 core: mono rca to xlr 2 core + screen microphone cable? I cannot find two pinned xlr to rca in shops, is that true? Is this being custom made?

I would like to keep using my Creative x-fi Titanium HD and put a Genelec volume knob between the speaker- soundcard. How would this be done including the ground not reaching the studio monitors?
By the way, is this safe? For example the pc can start up with sound on max and speakers is set on max volume, would it damage the speakers?

Thank you.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
I'm now really considering the 8250. But how would I connect them to my soundcard Creative x-fi Titanium HD? I read it should be digitally connected as the speakers are digital and do D/A themselves.
Can anyone guide me in here please? Would the 8050 be more fitting my purpouse? Is it enough just the two 8250 connected to my pc with the GLM 2.0 kit and a volume knob and how would I connect these and what is it with all the ethernet connections?
I'm staying away from spending 1k euro on an external dac now as I'd like to use my Creative soundcard and invest that money in the speakers.

Thank you.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Can I use http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/aes/ebu-impedance-transformers/naditbnc-m Female BNC 75 Ω input - male XLR chassis connector 110 Ω output. Interface balanced and coaxial lines. To connect my soundcard by spdif to XLR aes/ebu in to the 8250 speakers?
digipete, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 99 Liittymispäivä: 18.6.2011 Viimeisimmät viestit
Yes, you can use the Neutrik impedance transformers to change s/pdif into AES3 for feeding any Genelec SAM monitors including the 8250's.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
That's nice. Thank you.

I'm now also considering the 8330 as it also have some more features with DSP. I will add the 7350 subwoofer. Would the 8330 plus sub suit my 5x7 meter room, would it fill the room and suit my purpouses? Or would the 8240 and 8250 be the way to go?

Thank you.
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
That's nice. Thank you.

I'm now also considering the 8330 as it also have some more features with DSP. I will add the 7350 subwoofer. Would the 8330 plus sub suit my 5x7 meter room, would it fill the room and suit my purpouses? Or would the 8240 and 8250 be the way to go?

Thank you.


You wrote me a PM but I take the opportunity to share a few thoughts in public. I´ve been searching for similar input myself and appriciate "open source" user experiences. Hope that´s fine, Dimoroc?!

Room volume is one of many parameters achieving an expected performance. Wall material, furniture, equipment, type of signal, signal "quality", etc etc. are others.
Even though the 8X50 size of speaker pretty much differ från 8X30 performance, the Genelec sound is still there. In all speaker sizes. I ahave a pair of G One as well... :D
Bigger woofers perform another sound compared to a subwoofer. I think you already realise this but it is still of interest depending on what you are looking for and is expecting from your system.
Personally I changed from big, bulky and super heavy Event Opal due to risk of health for our kids and I expected a different sound. It is different but not in a negative way. It is different with pros and cons.
Besides, I also prefer to hide music gear away. Also for practical reasons since our kids do have interest in a volume knob, the buttons on the CD transport, the cables, the computer... Except the speakers, nothing is visible today. I like that. Others do like bright LEDs, 25kg mono amps, brushed aluminium, analogue watt meters, bundles of 10k cables...and so on. I am a minimalist. In person.

The speaker setup today is a pair of 8330SAM speakers and an F Two subwoofer. The reason of picking an F Two is only due to estetical reasons. Living room, family and wife consensus... :lol:
The performance of the 8330 alone are...fantastic. I sold my 8030A:s to take advantage of the room correction in the GLM software. After a few hours burn in, the 8330 performed so much "better" than the 8030A so I haven´t even touched the GLM software. Yet. It is sooo precise and spot on. The resolution appears much higher and comparing to the 8030:s I kind of think there must have been a thin plaid over the 8030:s. Need to say though, the 8030 is still a super speaker and the 8330 have to be viewed as just a (much) better piece of gear. SUPER! So as a speaker alone, i.e. overlooking the SAM functionality, I insist the 8330SAM is worth the extra investment over the 8030.

Regarding bass response. I´ve read about one octave lower response from 8330 over the 8030. I can confirm that (experienced, not measured). It plays rather deep with satisfaction. Still, the topic here is a bout a 5x7m living room...
We have a somewhat 9x6m living room, 2.5m high and also with an open end of approx. 3 meters facing to the stairs downwards, which of course "swallows" extra air. The volume can therefor be accounted more than the 110 cubic meters it is in the living room alone. Not that ideal and rather "airy" for a pair of 8330. Hah? :o
So, when trading the Event Opals away I instantly urged for a bass response. From somewhere. Initially I aimed
(and still do) for a 7350SAM. [For clarification: I owned a pair of 8030A in between Event Opal and 8330 ;) ]

The F Two performs great. Still, I am convinced the 7350SAM will do better. For obvious reasons I use the analogue out to the F Two which do not inhibit a signal bypass to the speakers. The internal electronics are of "consumer type" and not to the standards of the professional 8000-line. This design "steal" some of the clarity and precision, from 8330 alone, away as well as add a few dB white noise. Please note, I have only temporarily set up the 8330 + F Two and not listened that much. That´s due to I am waiting for the correct cables. The temporary cables are of cheapest mic type and do also consist of two 1.5m cable to each speaker. Might be a factor causing sound quality degradation. We´ll see.
The F Two SPL is impressive. Such a small unit playing that loud. It is paceful, deep and a add a lot to the total music experience. A LOT!
But the 7350SAM? Gaining similar specifications as the F Two but with professional electronics, digital input, GLM etc. Yes. I want it!
In practice, all rooms need acoustic treatment to achieve a flat frequency response. If that is expected. The GLM do offer part of the "solution" to a flat curve. I do not have the time to work with room acoustics and I rather spend such investments elsewhere. SAM is the "rational" guy´s way to the flat sound. I don´t say best sound. Flat sound. :P I don´t say lazy. Rational. :D
The 8330 and 7350 are made for each other and the possibility to feed a digital signal is tempting by itself. Even though I´ve (now) been told the internal in-speaker DA is using sampling rates much lower than the digital files I have the ambition to play (DSD, DXD etc), I still like the idea of fitting an all-in-all digital system. From seed to bread. To speak. Exactly in line with the minimalist person of mine.

Hope this helps.
Good luck!
digipete, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 99 Liittymispäivä: 18.6.2011 Viimeisimmät viestit
I'm now also considering the 8330 as it also have some more features with DSP. I will add the 7350 subwoofer.
Would the 8330 plus sub suit my 5x7 meter room, would it fill the room and suit my purposes? Or would the 8240 and 8250 be the way to go?


I'd also go with the 8330's with the 7350.
You get full range 22-23kHz, plenty power (SPL 106dB @ 1m combined), all digital and the newest DSP room correction.
EUR 2800 / USD 3100 for all this and Genelec sound - that's hard to beat!

For any upgrade I would go all the way to either 8351 or 8260, but that's over double or almost triple the cost.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
How is the Genelec 8351 connected? Same as the 8330? Optical to Neutrik adapter to XLR AES / ebu ? So both 8330 and 8351 are coax?

Thanks.
daiyama, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 73 Liittymispäivä: 4.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Yes same connection, but 8330 is not a coax laudspeaker.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
I cant seem to find the volume knob to attach to the GLM kit at dutch online stores, and it's not included in the GLM 2.0 kit.
The AES / ebu connection is only up to 192kHz, right? Is it then considered to be future proof? We would be tempted to upgrade new digital monitors or connect them the analog way.

Can the 7270 sub be multichanneled with 8351 and 8240 or 8250? As this combination is not listed in the recommandation list.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Is thomann.de/nl an official Genelec dealer or would it be recommanded to buy from another (authorized/official) dealer?

Another question. When going spdif from sound card Creative x-fi Titanium HD, or whatevery motherboard that has optical/digital out, do the sound features like Dolby, DTS etc. available on the soundcard/motherboard work on the 8351SAM? And what sample rate would 8351SAM use when connecting it by 24bit/192kHz spdif out to AES EBU and what by 24bit/96kHz spdif out?

Would it make a difference wether spdif supports up to 24bit/192kHz or if it supports up to 24bit/96kHz for connecting it with 8351SAM? As I read that the mid and bass driver of the 8351 supports 48kHz and tweeter 96kHz.
Can anyone explain why these Genelec speakers are limited with this certain resolution?

Hope to hear from you. Thanks.
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
I cant seem to find the volume knob to attach to the GLM kit at dutch online stores, and it's not included in the GLM 2.0 kit.
The AES / ebu connection is only up to 192kHz, right? Is it then considered to be future proof? We would be tempted to upgrade new digital monitors or connect them the analog way.

Well, "future proof" is a debate in itself. Kind of philosophic to be honest. :D What type of media in the future?

I follow the camera market very closely since I am a very dedicated and enthusiastic photographer. The past few years (I´d say3-4) have rendered major, I mean MAJOR, steps in regards digital camera performance. (I am a very dedicated analogue enthusiast as well so technology and gear is not really superior to photographing, but it´s fun ;) )
Signal processing, circuit board innovation, memory speed and capacity etc. have all resulted in extreme improvements to the digital image files such as dymanic range, extreme high ISO capability, resolution, micro contrast, color depth etc. The momentum of innovation in this market might show some kind of movement in general but is of course not limited to a certain category of electronic equipment, it "spills" over to every professional or consumer electronics business whereever innovations can be applied. Claiming the opposite must be considered being very defensive and conservative.

What do I mean? Well, this will be a fact in studio monitoring business as well as the smartphone business or else technology driven business. However 24/192 might be considered a limitation or not, it is still a limitation in practice. I don´t say it is strategic , or not, including a DA conversion in to a speaker but as soon as there are new demands there is a hardware limitation not that easy to bypass...if not using the analogue input to a speaker of course. Who is using the built in GPS in cars today for instance? Honestly...? 8-)
Today 24bit/192kHz is great but hey, what about the "10MP digital camera" debate back in the days? The 3MP (megapixel) consumer pocket camera lobbyists claimed 10MP was extremely excessive and only spec. masturbation. 2016?...check it out!..100MP and beyond...
And whatabaout the 3.75mb IBM storage in 1956?
I doubt I need to be very scientific to claim future will strain ANY business and challange existing design(s). So also the DA conversion spec:s in Genelec SAM speakers. Eventhough they are great today.

Next. The redbook CD might be expected as ancient at 16bit/44.1kHz and one do not have to be audiophile nor laboratory scientist to notice a subjective difference in audible resolution between a CD and a SACD (24/192 DSD). If 24/192 is some kind of current position I´d concur it might be. As an average sampling rate.
There are downloadable HD music available out there with sampling rates much higher than this. And why should these companies offer this kind of product if there were no difference in practice? Putting a company´s profit at risk is neither an option from my point of view so there must be a market and a demand for this. Maybe an implicit demand, but still, once you taste the newbies you know what´s there.
I´d say it is NOT spec. masturbation neither year 2016. If the 24/192 corresponds to the 3MP camera sensors in the past, there will for certain be 100MP equivalents in the digital music world in the future. Well, as mentioned, you can download HD music already today. Not in the future.
iPhone 6 have a built in native DSD player. Without any additional app download. Why? Tell me... ;)

Personally I am curious about the SAM digital connection performance and will for sure give it a try. But I also urge for HD music to download, convert them in a DSD compatible DAC and connect analogue to my 8330SAM. I think the DSD DAC way of playing music in my 8330:s will exceed the digital way of connecting. But we´ll see. I can´t find any web user experience in this area so I might be the first to contribute. Soon enough, wait and see.

In the end, the subjective impressions are far more important than what figures stated in the specs. As indicated between the brackets above, the final image is my primary goal when photographing, not how many pixels there are. Some of the best pictures I have taken is from an analogue "toy camera" (Diana) with plastic lenses. :mrgreen:
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Is thomann.de/nl an official Genelec dealer or would it be recommanded to buy from another (authorized/official) dealer?

A good web shop and very quick deliveries. Recommended!

Another question. When going spdif from sound card Creative x-fi Titanium HD, or whatevery motherboard that has optical/digital out, do the sound features like Dolby, DTS etc. available on the soundcard/motherboard work on the 8351SAM? And what sample rate would 8351SAM use when connecting it by 24bit/192kHz spdif out to AES EBU and what by 24bit/96kHz spdif out?

Would it make a difference wether spdif supports up to 24bit/192kHz or if it supports up to 24bit/96kHz for connecting it with 8351SAM? As I read that the mid and bass driver of the 8351 supports 48kHz and tweeter 96kHz.
Can anyone explain why these Genelec speakers are limited with this certain resolution?

Hope to hear from you. Thanks.

I am trying to figure out the same. Try to get Ilkka to explain it to you. There are other threads discussing the same topic but you might need at least a fair level of basic DA skills to get the picture. I have low knowledge in this area and don´t really understand to be honest. If stated 24/192 where the tweeter and bass converts at 96kHz and 48kHz respectively I don´t clue how 192kHz fit to the picture. But from my humble view I have to admit I do not know "how things work". Might not make sense after all. I will examine this in a while and get personal subjective experience, on top of figure exercise, to refer to.
ellebob, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Youngling Viestejä: 3 Liittymispäivä: 3.2.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
I'll try to explain this as simply as I can in layman terms, maybe Ikka can explain it better :D . First is bits. This is the amount of information in the material. If there was only 1 bit you could have only 2 options, 2 bits would be 4 possible options for levels of information. Every time you add a bit you double the amount of levels of information. For you camera guys 8 bits would be 256 different shades of one color. 24 bit on a camera is actually 8 bit, 256 shades for 3 colors or a possible ~16 million shades of color. So for CD (16 bits) we have ~65,000 levels of information in that audio signal, jumping to 24 bits gives us ~16 million levels of information. That is a big jump and while on a good system you can notice the difference it is not night and day, blow me away difference. Having more bits also helps if doing any type of processing or conversion where less information would be lost in the processing.

Sampling, I am not going to get into all the nuances of sampling but in a nutshell their is something called the Nyquist limit. It basically states that whatever you want to sample you need to make the sampling rate twice that figure to capture all the data. So if you want to sample up to 20khz, you really only need to sample at 40khz. Hence CD can play up to 22khz because it is sampling at 44khz. Since most of us with few exceptiondon't hear above 20khz it is overkill to sample beyond 40khz and just wastes space. That is why you will see some recordings at 20 or 24 bit with only 48khz sampling. So having sampling at 192 or 384 is really a waste. Some of the Genelec tweeters go out to 40khz and that is why their sampling for the tweeter is 96khz and the woofer coming no where near those frequencies only samples at 48khz. The woofer could get by with a lot less but 48khz is a standard with chips and it would be harder to do at less.

Just like the camera world numbers sell. Everybody thinks 384 has to be better than 96 etc. The megapixel race really hurt the quality of cameras. Everybody perceived more as being better but I had a 6mp Fuji F31with only 6mp that took better pictures than most of the new point at shoots at 16 or 20mp. The reason is pixel density and when you make pixels smaller on the same size chip they don't collect as much light and have less contrast and low light performance. But bigger numbers sold and Fuji stopped making the F31 as it didn't look as good on the specs. BTW, I have since upgraded my point and shoot to a Sony RX100IV but while it is 20mp it has a bigger sensor than most cameras that size. I also have an Olympus DLSR but only use now when I know I need one of the zoom lenses where the Sony is on me at all times. The best camera to have is the one you use.
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
I'll try to explain this as simply as I can in layman terms, maybe Ikka can explain it better :D

That is a really good explanation, I couldn't have said it better myself! Thank you so much! :)
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thank you all for all the information.

Would my pci-e soundcard Creative x-fi Titanium HD be able to give a clean digital output through spdif? Or would it be more preferable to use another digital source that is more suiting the 2x 8351SAM? And what when I go 2.1 through spdif which I think put out up to 24bit/96kHz, would it then downsample as spdif is always two channel?
Any options to look at?

Thanks.
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit

I am trying to figure out the same. Try to get Ilkka to explain it to you. There are other threads discussing the same topic but you might need at least a fair level of basic DA skills to get the picture. I have low knowledge in this area and don´t really understand to be honest. If stated 24/192 where the tweeter and bass converts at 96kHz and 48kHz respectively I don´t clue how 192kHz fit to the picture. But from my humble view I have to admit I do not know "how things work". Might not make sense after all. I will examine this in a while and get personal subjective experience, on top of figure exercise, to refer to.

I could add that although 8351 accepts digital signals up to 192 kHz, all signals will be sample rate converted to 96 kHz for the tweeter channel and to 48 kHz for the mid and bass channels. Anyone (bats and dolphins not included!) who can hear frequencies over 48 kHz (half of 96 kHz, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_frequency) can report to me immediately! :)
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thank you all for all the information.

Would my pci-e soundcard Creative x-fi Titanium HD be able to give a clean digital output through spdif? Or would it be more preferable to use another digital source that is more suiting the 2x 8351SAM? And what when I go 2.1 through spdif which I think put out up to 24bit/96kHz, would it then downsample as spdif is always two channel?
Any options to look at?

Thanks.

Yes, your sound card is perfect for that job and provides clean digital signal. S/PDIF output supports up to 2.1 channels of uncompressed (PCM) audio signal at 24 bit / 96 kHz.
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
As it's a clean signal it would be jitter-free?

Thank you.
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
As it's a clean signal it would be jitter-free?

Thank you.

Of course there is some amount of jitter, that can't be avoided, but you should not worry about it. Just listen! :)
dimoroc, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 33 Liittymispäivä: 18.1.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Some time ago I tried the studio monitors yamaha hs8, connected my sound card to it by rca to xlr and was having strange noises like constant humm when I opened a game on the computer or other computer intensive programme's. Do you know this issue? I think it was because the unbalanced connection doesn't ground the proper way into the balanced input of the yamaha. Is that correct? I never had it on normal pc speaker set corsair sp2500 which I connected rca to rca.
Is it possible that I will experience the same problem connecting spdif from my current sound card creative xfi titanium HD to the genelec 8351 with the neutrik converter?

Thanks.
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

I don't know that issue and for sure it is not because of unbalanced to balanced connection. In any case, digital connections are typically more resistant to any sort of problems when it comes to noise, ground loops etc.
laparn, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Padawan Viestejä: 39 Liittymispäivä: 20.6.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Dimoroc,
A few weeks has passed since I visited this thread. I still reckon you search for a DAC recommendation. Hah?
Now, I got the answer. Look no more. ;)

I have purchased a Chord Mojo. An amazing piece of gear with "latest technology". Released during fall 2015 and include ALL you need and want. Maybe the limitation of three inputs might be an issue for you. Not for me, USB, optical and coax. do match my need. The primary use is with headphones and there is only (dual) 3.5mm TRS outputs and neither RCA nor XLR. But this unit is sooo good it will outperform desktop DAC:s up to three times it´s price. My Benchmark DAC1 PRE is crawling itself back in to the box it came with. It feels embarrased and cannot match the Mojo at all. And you can still buy the DAC1 new for three times the Mojo price.
I feed my Genelec 8330SAM speakers (through an F Two sub) with 3.5-to-RCA-cables and the sound is just amazing. Blown-away-amazing.

If you have the need, and money, I can also recommend the pricier Chord Hugo (RCA output) or the recently released, even pricier, Chord Hugo TT (RCA and XLR).

The fact is that my primary aim was to put the Mojo to my main rig but due to it´s tiny sice it goes with me back and forth to my job. I will not unlikely buy another one so I can continue use one on the road. And maybe a third one to put behind (yes, behind) my TV and feed it with optical and out to the Genelec G1:s I use for TV sound.
kik2k9, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Youngling Viestejä: 1 Liittymispäivä: 27.7.2014 Viimeisimmät viestit
Have anyone used MiniDSP's products as a DAC?
This for example: https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendr ... opendrc-da
Balanced outputs and only 349 USD. I've been tempted to try one.
nicolas-en-inde, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Youngling Viestejä: 4 Liittymispäivä: 5.4.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
I have bought 8030BPM and add a DAC Cambridge audio Magic PLus
The result is perfect with XLR cables and Airplay from my computer
You can also plug the computer with an USB cable to the DAC and the result is better
Warm regards
;)
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/fr/produ ... magic-plus
distill, muokattu 5 Vuodet sitten.

Re: dac recommandations

Youngling Viestejä: 2 Liittymispäivä: 28.8.2016 Viimeisimmät viestit
Does anyone have both Chord Mojo and RME Babyface (or some other RME product)? How would you compare the sound quality for just random music listening? I have RME products and I'm wondering whether Mojo has better sound for listening purposes and in what way if so.