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Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 7350

talex, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 7350

Padawan Viestejä: 41 Liittymispäivä: 27.8.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

I've just realised i've written two very long PMs to Illka so i thought i'd better be more concise with my questions :-)

I'm trying to validate if 8330 + 7350 would be suited for me or if i really need to look at 8240/8250.

Usage is home use in a 35m3 room for music, games & movies with normal listening level around 70db SPLa. I thought about the sub for the lower LF extension in games & movies coupled with small speakers placed in a difficult position (on the desk in a corner for the nearfield).
Room is completly untreated so I'm hoping GLM can give me a hand here as acoustics are bad.
I plan to use whatever setup i get in this room in two locations: on the desk with 70cm listening distance and by the projector screen with 220cm listening distance with difference calibrations for the two positions.

I the future I would move to a 95m3 room where I would like to move whatever setup i get to function exclusively as a nearfield setup on/behind the desk with 0.7-1.2m listening distance.

If you could please help me with the following:

- Would the 8330s still work at 2.2m listening distance in a 35m3 room? besides the drop in SPL, i am loosing also stereo imaging and detail? Are they unsuitable this listening distance? Would you recommend something else for this distance instead of 8330+7350 combo for the intended use?

- Could the 7350 work ok in the only location i have available in this room? Placement would be behind me for the nearfiled setup and between the speakers for the projector setup http://s16.postimg.org/68p636lxh/Overall_room_setup.jpg

- If i would move the 7350 to the bigger room (95m3) but still keep them very close (max 2m away) for my nearfield setup, would it still work? Or does room volume completly kill a woofer regardless of listening distance?

Thank you!
talex, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 735

Padawan Viestejä: 41 Liittymispäivä: 27.8.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

I’ve received my 7350 a few days ago, so my 8330 + 7350 setup is finally complete!
GLM made the process of setting up the 7350 a breeze, everything set up nice and tight; GLM really takes the headache out of integrating a subwoofer!

The contribution the 7350 brings to music is subtle, but is definitively there. The sound is “fuller” and the whole room gets filled with sound, with a nice accent in the low end.
Overall the response is a bit “bass shy” compared to what i’m used to, but this is normal, as I’ve been listening to bass bloated music for my entire youth :-) i need a bit of time to adjust to “reference” sound.
For games and movies thou, the contribution is decisive.

I’ve executed the “subwoofer crawl” by testing out various positions for the subwoofer in my untreated room, but still haven’t reached a satisfactory result due to cancellations in either the speakers or the subwoofer.
I’ve attached the in-room response of my system in the “best” location:
- 7350: http://s13.postimg.org/shoy2aus7/7350.png
- left 8330: http://s21.postimg.org/7btps13sn/left_8330.png
- right 8330: http://s15.postimg.org/n67bqjxff/right_8330.png

A few questions related to the setup and integration of the subwoofer:

1. In the low end area, I have acoustical cancellations in both the subwoofer (70hz) and in one of the monitors (60hz). I’ve performed the initial setup with the standard 85hz crossover value. I was wondering give the cancelations present if i may be better suited to choose a different crossover point?
For example 55hz would enable me to avoid the big dip the subwoofer experiences.
Or using “full band” crossover for the subwoofer and the monitors would enable them completing each other and filling each other gaps.
Any advice for a suitable crossover for this situation?

2. Normall I would have tested 1. in practice, but GLM2.0.5 seems to have a strange bug.
Whever i choose a different crossover point other than 85hz - i’ve tested with 55hz or full band - when i am doing the autophase calibration, there is no sound coming out, the calibration is suposedly completed, but in the end the phase is badly calibrated (i can hear the subwoofer out of place in the track). What information do you need for me to submit a bug request for this?

3. “Subwoofer bypass” button in GLM2.0.5 does not appear to turn off the subwoofer. I though it would function as a “subwoofer mute” button, but in reality does not seem to do anything. Is this a bug?

4. For most content, the subwoofer response is quite pleasant, but for some home applications i need a bit of bass boost :-)
I’ve read here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=239&start=0 that one way to do it is to do a high shelfing filter above 200hz.
Is there a specific reason why 200hz was chosen? Does this depend on the content? Why not set it at 320hz for example where LF ends.

5. I was comparing the room adaptation capabilities of the 8330 / 7350 with the 8351 that i’m considering for my dedicated home theater room.
The 8351 seems to have much fewer filters than the 8330s/7350 althouhg they were launched together.
Does this mean 8330 is more recommended for untreated rooms, whereas 8351 is more suited for fully treated rooms?
Why would a higher end model have less room adaptation capabilities than a lower end model?
In my room for example, 10-12 filters are currently being used to even out the response.

Thank you & Best regards!
Alex.
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 735

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

1. Based on the measurements you posted, I would recommend trying a lower crossover frequency, for example 55 Hz. You will probably end up with a much flatter total response.

2. We haven't been able to reproduce this here. Can you please send us your GLM setup file?

3. We haven't been able to reproduce this either.

4. 200 to 300 Hz is a good starting point, there is no definitive rule. If you only want to boost the subwoofer, you can also adjust the level setting. Or if the subwoofer level is already maxed out, you can attenuate the speakers instead.

5. 8351 is based on the three-way DSP platform introduced on the 8260 a few years ago. That's why it has fewer filters. Typically you won't see any actual gains beyond 6 bandpass and 4 shelving filters even though there would be hundreds available.
talex, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 735

Padawan Viestejä: 41 Liittymispäivä: 27.8.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Ilkka,

Thank you so much for the replies.
I will try retest issues 2 and 3 at home and will submit a proper bug report with steps to reproduce and setup file.

Regarding 5 - having more filters is actually how the 83xx series is marketed ;P
For me, the 7350 does use 12 notch filters to even out things and the 8330s 6 notch filters, but than again it's a very bad room... :)
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 735

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Yes, of course it doesn't hurt to have more filters but the gains beyond say 6 filters are diminishing. The frequency response may get a little flatter on the screen but you won't be able to hear any difference. Our ears are very insensitive at low frequencies and a few dB difference here won't be audible at all.
talex, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 735

Padawan Viestejä: 41 Liittymispäivä: 27.8.2015 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

1. Based on the measurements you posted, I would recommend trying a lower crossover frequency, for example 55 Hz. You will probably end up with a much flatter total response.

2. We haven't been able to reproduce this here. Can you please send us your GLM setup file?

3. We haven't been able to reproduce this either.


Dear Ilkka,


I am happy to report that after a full restart of the equipment (monitors & mac mini) I was unable to further reproduce the issues 2. and 3. i experienced with autophase calibration not working for 55hz crossover or the problem with subwoofer bypass button not functioning in normal use.
I guess it must have been a glitch due to running the setup a lot of times in a row while i was setting up the system.

I’ve now set the crossover to 55hz in order to avoid the big dip in subwoofer response at 70hz and the 8330 + 7350 sounds very good.

One question related to the overall response of the system: By clicking on each 8330 or 7350 i can see the calibrate curve for each component.
Is there any way to see the calibrate response of the entire system? Meaning covering the whole range 20hz-20khz, taking into consideration the effect of the crossover?


Thanks!
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 6 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Advice needed for nearfield setup with the 8330s and 735

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Alex,

Ok, that is very good to know! :)

At the moment there is no option in GLM to measure the total response of the system. We are looking at this later as a feature upgrade.