ISS: Toggling between idle and standby mode - Forum

Hello,

Thanks for your post. All our models include the ISS functionality (mandatory by law). Now, the F2 sub goes into ISS stand by mode (sleep mode) after some time and when no signal source is sent to the subwoofer and the G3s do the same. The exact timing may not be perfectly the same and that is not an issue.

Can you clarify what you mean by idle mode and stand by mode? To me they are the same...
Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Thank you for the response, Christophe. I'll elaborate a bit more. The terms I used are listed in the power consumption section in the documentation for the F2 and G3:

Stand by, meaning that ISS has shut down the device and consumes <1W. LED is off.

Idle, meaning that ISS has activated the device - the device is powered on, but silent as there is no signal from the source. LED is on.


I acknowledge that the timing is not accurate, and that the three devices will enter Stand by mode at different times. This is fine. However, the problem I'm facing is that devices that are already in Stand by mode go into Idle mode even though there is no input signal from the source - and it happens seemingly as a result the other devices changing their mode.

I've noticed the following happening:

1. Music playing, all devices are on.
2. Music is stopped.
3. After a while (45-60 minutes-ish), one of the G3 speakers goes into Stand by mode.
4. After some more minutes, the next G3 speaker goes into Stand by mode.
5. After even some more minutes, the F2 goes into Stand by mode - causing the G3 speakers to immediately enter Idle mode (see hypothesis A below).
6. The F2 will after a while somehow also enter Idle mode, even though there is still no input signal (see hypothesis B below).
7. Jump back to 3. This goes on for what seems like forever.

My current hypotheses are:

A) The ISS operation used to shut down the F2 (Idle -> Stand by) produces some signal that is detected by ISS on the G3 speakers which are connected directly to that F2.

B) ISS in F2 has a more sensitive signal detection/detects weaker signals than ISS in G3. After all, the G3 speakers can be connected directly to the (same) source without ever leaving Stand by mode (given that there is no input signal from the source).


I'm not completely sure where to go from here, so any advice on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated.

Hello,

Thanks for your detailed reply. All clear now. I had to ask our R&D and Service departments about this issue.

So, the F2 subwoofer may have a mute circuit fault. To find out you could switch off the F2 using the remote control. Then, there should be an audible, muffled, click sound but not any loud sound at all. If the F2A has this fault (louder sound), then you need to contact your Genelec local Distributor service center to have the unti checked.

The F2 subwoofer does not necessarily have anything wrong, but the mute can possibly be defective. This is what we are trying to understand. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Best regards,

Hi,

Thank you for the pointers. I've just tested this with the remote control with the following results:

[*:32q8xbac]From idle to mute: No noticeable sound.[/*:m:32q8xbac]

[*:32q8xbac]From mute to idle: No noticeable sound.[/*:m:32q8xbac]

[*:32q8xbac]From idle to off: A thump sound coming out of the G3 speakers. The sound reminds me of the sound you get if you pull your signal cables from an amplifier+speakers without shutting it off first. The volume is not high, but easily noticeable.[/*:m:32q8xbac]

[*:32q8xbac]From off to idle: A short click/hiss coming out of the G3 speakers. Similar to the sound when the G3 speakers are switched from off to idle mode.[/*:m:32q8xbac]

Comparing your explanation to the result in the third test case, I believe you are correct and that the mute circuit in my F2 is faulty.

Do I interpret the results correctly?

BR

Hello,

Thanks for your detailed troubelshooting report. I have enquired with our R&D department with your report. Indeed, it seems that the F2 mute circuit is faulty.

So, in order to service your F2 subwoofer I recommend you contact your local Genelec Distributor for further help and support. Sorry for this inconvenience.

Best regards,

Great! No problem, Christophe. I've already reached out to my local distributor, and they are handling it very smoothly. Thank you very much for the assistance

I've got to say that the customer service that you provide by being so available in this forum is amongst the best I've seen from any manufacturer. Simply outstanding. Have a nice weekend.

Hi again,

I received a new F2 unit and the issue is present with this one also unfortunately; The G3 speakers go into idle mode (meaning that they power on) whenever the F2 (after its idle period) powers off.

The speakers still output a thump sound when the F2 is powered off using the remote (by long clicking the power button on the remote), similar to the previous F2. I suspect that this indicates a faulty mute circuit again, but considering that this is a different F2 it seems rather unlikely - doesn't it?

The source component was disconnected in the following tests to eliminate any potential external factors. The setup consists exclusively of two G3 speakers connected to the F2 with XLR cables:

[*:2aqrw2da]From idle to mute: No noticeable sound. As expected.[/*:m:2aqrw2da]

[*:2aqrw2da]From mute to idle: No noticeable sound. As expected.[/*:m:2aqrw2da]

[*:2aqrw2da]From mute to off: A thump sound coming from the G3 speakers. Expected no noticeable sound, so not according to the expectation.[/*:m:2aqrw2da]

[*:2aqrw2da]From idle to off: A thump sound coming from the G3 speakers. Expected no noticeable sound, so not according to the expectation.[/*:m:2aqrw2da]

[*:2aqrw2da]From off to idle: A short click/hiss coming out of the G3 speakers. As expected.[/*:m:2aqrw2da]

Any input on how to proceed is welcome.
BR

Hi espen,

Sorry about the late reply, this is a really tricky issue and we have been trying to figure it out here internally but we are still not 100% certain what is the root cause. It is a known fact that the subwoofer's mute circuit will always pass through a small click/pop which can wake up the speakers from their standby state. This is something that needs to be improved in the future by modifying the circuit itself and/or the ISS software (delays, sensitivity etc).

But it doesn't explain why your subwoofer is also woken up after it wakes up the speakers, it shouldn't do this.

Could you please let us know which distributor did you handle your subwoofer swap with so that we could ask them to send it to us for further inspection. We could then also modify the ISS circuit so that it operates how it should be.

Thanks!

Hi Ilkka,

Thank you for the response.

It is a known fact that the subwoofer's mute circuit will always pass through a small click/pop which can wake up the speakers from their standby state. This is something that needs to be improved in the future by modifying the circuit itself and/or the ISS software (delays, sensitivity etc).

Ok, this is new information to me. I guess this means that hypothesis A) in my second post is true, and that it's by design (or at least expected behaviour). It seems a bit broken to be honest since the F2 is designed to go hand in hand with G3. An improvement would be very welcome indeed, but I'm not sure if it will benefit me as an existing customer as these units don't have firmware upgrade ports?

I have made a short video showing what happens. The oddity occurs at 15 seconds.

But it doesn't explain why your subwoofer is also woken up after it wakes up the speakers, it shouldn't do this.

I think we have a misunderstanding unfortunately, I'll try to clear that up. The subwoofer doesn't wake up after it first wakes up the speakers. The subwoofer remains shut off (if no source is connected).

However, if my source (a Sonos Connect) is connected to the subwoofer then the subwoofer will wake up at random times even if the source doesn't play any music. I can connect the same source directly to the G3 speakers without they being woken up, so there is a difference between the ISS modules in F2 and G3 in this regard. If the Sonos emits some kind of noise (it probably does but I didn't measure it), it's too low to be detected by the G3s but loud enough to be detected by F2.

Hence, the hypothesis B) in my second post is that the ISS module in the F2 is more sensitive than the ISS module in the G3. Is this something that you can confirm?

I guess this means that you don't really need to inspect my previous F2 regarding this issue, but please let me know and I'll share the details.

Thank you.

Edit; Added link to video.

Hi Ilkka,

Thank you for the response.

Ok, this is new information to me. I guess this means that hypothesis A) in my second post is true, and that it's by design (or at least expected behaviour). It seems a bit broken to be honest since the F2 is designed to go hand in hand with G3. An improvement would be very welcome indeed, but I'm not sure if it will benefit me as an existing customer as these units don't have firmware upgrade ports?

There are no user accessible upgrade ports but obviously we can do it here at the factory. That's why it would be necessary to have your subwoofer shipped here.

I think we have a misunderstanding unfortunately, I'll try to clear that up. The subwoofer doesn't wake up after it first wakes up the speakers. The subwoofer remains shut off (if no source is connected).

Ok, understood.

However, if my source (a Sonos Connect) is connected to the subwoofer then the subwoofer will wake up at random times even if the source doesn't play any music. I can connect the same source directly to the G3 speakers without they being woken up, so there is a difference between the ISS modules in F2 and G3 in this regard. If the Sonos emits some kind of noise (it probably does but I didn't measure it), it's too low to be detected by the G3s but loud enough to be detected by F2.

Hence, the hypothesis B) in my second post is that the ISS module in the F2 is more sensitive than the ISS module in the G3. Is this something that you can confirm?

It is not more sensitive but the frequency range it monitors is different. It would seem that your source is outputting some low frequency noise which the subwoofer picks up (and activates) but the speakers filter out the noise. That's how it needs to be because the subwoofer only reproduces low frequencies.

I guess this means that you don't really need to inspect my previous F2 regarding this issue, but please let me know and I'll share the details.

Just the contrary, we would like to inspect and also upgrade your subwoofer so that it works perfectly.

we would like to inspect and also upgrade your subwoofer so that it works perfectly.

Ok, thank you for this. I'll package it up and deliver it to my local distributor later this week. I'll let you know the details in a PM.

we would like to inspect and also upgrade your subwoofer so that it works perfectly.

Ok, thank you for this. I'll package it up and deliver it to my local distributor later this week. I'll let you know the details in a PM.

Ok, I just replied to your PM.

Hi,

Just a short status update. I got the F Two back earlier this week after the upgrade and it works flawlessly! Thank you very much

Best regards

Hi,

Just a short status update. I got the F Two back earlier this week after the upgrade and it works flawlessly! Thank you very much

Best regards

Hi Espen,

Thank you, this made my day!