Genelec Community Forum has been archived

Thank you for all the years of Community discussions and activity!

The time has come for us to retire the community forums, but we will keep everything available for reading. There is a lot of valuable content written over the years, and you'll be able to access all of that. However, no new posts can be written, or old posts modified.

If you have questions, we recommend you use the Support function on the bottom right corner to contact our Customer Support directly.

Alternatively, if you wish to engage in a community discussion with other people, there are many active forums available. There is also an active, fan managed GENELEC COMMUNITY in Facebook, and many Genelec employees are active in the discussions there.

We are sorry for any possible inconvenience this may cause you, but we hope to hear from you through the other channels mentioned above.

Genelec Support

Keskusteluryhmät

40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

rasmusmarshagen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Youngling Viestejä: 6 Liittymispäivä: 8.11.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

I recently demoed a lot of monitors in a store and found the 8040s sounding marvelous! I would have settled with the 8030s because of my room size but the 8040s just sounded so much better and less "boxy". My room is 16 sqmeters and right now I now use a subwoofer, which produces a brutal boom at almost exactly 40hz, I guess my listening spot suffers from a standing wave issue caused by my room size and lack of enough basstrapping?(I do have a bunch of absorption/foam trapping behind and on the sides of the woofer)

Because of those sub issues I actually turned off the sub and just used my yamahahs50 which has the fq response 55hz-20khz, and it was so much clearer, and I was pleased with the sound without having that deep subfq my woofer delivered starting from 30hz... I will return to the store and listen to the 8040 again with the bass roll off and see if I like it, will it drastically change the sound?

My main question is- will I be able to roll off the deep bass on the 8040 so that the 40hz won't bother me? How does the cut-off work exactly on the 8040, the specs says its adjustable from 0-(-)6dB from the cutoff frequency, which is 45hz?(though the free field fq resp says 48hz) is it -6db/octave, when(freq wise) has it been attenuated with 6db? Thanks in advance! /Rasmus
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Rasmus,

The -3 dB frequency response point (also called as the cut-off frequency) of the 8040A is 45 Hz. The frequency response roll-off below this is very steep, more than 24 dB/octave. Additionally one can attenuate this area by enabling the bass roll-off dip switches which enable a maximum of 6 dB attenuation around this area. So effectively you are raising the cut-off frequency higher than 45 Hz.

In order to answer to your answer accurately, I would need to know how much gain does your room produce at 40 Hz. That would require some in-room frequency response measurements.

Would it possible to borrow the speakers from the store and listen then in your own room?
rasmusmarshagen, muokattu 5 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Youngling Viestejä: 6 Liittymispäivä: 8.11.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Ilkka,

I just measured my room using Room EQ Wizard. I have no idea how accurate it is- I didn't calibrate my audio device. But the way I did it: I used my Röde NT2-A in Omni mode, facing a bit upward in my listening spot. I've attached two photos with the range 30-120 Hz.

In the one with the name "sub_frequencies.jpg" the subwoofer is dialed in at the level of 10 o' clock(which is a recommended starting point when setting levels between the hs50's and the hs10w.) And the crossover is at 100Hz from the subwoofer to the nearfields.

The other picture named "sub_frequencies_55hz cutoff(yamaha hs50).jpg" is just the hs50's without the sub.

I hope this will give you a better picture of my room acoustics and my 40Hz problem. So, do you think the 8040's will work for me based on what you have seen on these graphs?

Thanks alot!
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Rasmus,

Thank you for the measurements, they are very helpful! It seems you have at least 10 dB gain at around 40-45 Hz. The 8040A's would be able to compensate this reasonably well with maximum -6 dB bass roll-off setting but I am then afraid of the mid bass range (55-80 Hz), which seems to be already attenuated a bit in your room. When you employ the bass roll-off setting, also those frequencies are attenuated some more which can make the speakers sound a bit thin and light on bass.

I would recommend looking into our DSP range speakers, for example 8240A. The digital room correction is much more accurate and versatile than analog correction. Of course the unit price is somewhat higher but it is well worth it once you realize how much better sound quality you will get!
rasmusmarshagen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Youngling Viestejä: 6 Liittymispäivä: 8.11.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Okay, I was afraid of that. That price tag is quite too high for me, even if I try to save up for a while.

How do you think the 8030's would behave in my room then? I mean, I still liked them alot! (just not as "utopia" sounding as the 8040s)!

They perform the same in the upper frequencies right- same components and stuff?

Will I be able to get a problem-free sub-fq-area with them do you think?

Thanks, you are really helpful!
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
The 8030A's would definitely behave better because their bass response won't extend as low. Performance in the upper frequencies will be relatively similar but of course the 8040A will have some gain due to its larger woofer (notice that the crossover is at 3 kHz), size of the cabinet and DCW, higher amplifier power etc.
rasmusmarshagen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Youngling Viestejä: 6 Liittymispäivä: 8.11.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Okay thanks!

Hm... I'm really tempted to just go for the 8030's since I can afford them pretty soon. Though I don't like the idea of buying my second choice.

Lets say I would start to save up for 8240's, don't I need the GLM software as well for the correction function to work at all?(which not appears to be included?)

The price would be 1099 euro/unit * 2 = 2198 euro
+ GLM software- price at Thomann is 599 euro
This will add up to as high as 2797 euro's as opposed to 8030's for around 800-900 euros! Why isn't the GLM software included in purchasing the dsp monitors? I mean, isn't that the whole point of buying them instead of the 8040's- being able to correct the room flaws digitally? I really want them but damn is 2797 euros a lot of dough... :( is 2797 euros the lowest price tag entering the genelec DSP range of monitors?

Thanks
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi,

yes, you will need the GLM package to take full advantage of the DSP series speakers. It is true that the 8240A + GLM is much more expensive package than the 8030A, but then again the level of control you have over your speaker system and the improved sound quality is at whole another level.

We didn't want to force every DSP speaker buyer to buy also GLM because not everyone want to own it. It is possible to run the calibration procedure just once (for example some dealers provide this as a service) and store the settings to the speakers.
rasmusmarshagen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Youngling Viestejä: 6 Liittymispäivä: 8.11.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Okay,

That makes sense, I hope that my dealer allows that though! I'm actually leaning towards the 8240 again haha...!

I have one concern though, I read somewhere that the filters in the dsp-correction only can attenuate and not boost frequencies. How will it be able to flatten out my frequency response since I lack gain in the mid-bass range?

thanks!
ilkka-rissanen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Yoda Viestejä: 2564 Liittymispäivä: 23.3.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
It is true that the AutoCal procedure won't apply positive gain filters because it's the safe way to apply equalization. If one would allow large positive gain filters to be applied, the calibration procedure could easily go unstable and the result would sound worse than the starting point. But actually you don't need positive gain filters to make your frequency response flatter. When one attenuates the peaks and then applies some total gain to the system, the overall result is and sounds the same as a flat frequency response.
rasmusmarshagen, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: 40hz BOOM, Will 8040A's work?

Youngling Viestejä: 6 Liittymispäivä: 8.11.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Okay,

You confirmed that my room size is okay for the 8240's considering the dimensions-

4 meters wide 4 meters long and 2,40'ish in height!

But I'm a bit worried about whether my bed alcove solution is okay or if its horrible from an acoustic perspective. I mean- I've followed most of the simple guidelines when placing monitors, but as you can see in the attached photos, my studio setup is basically stuffed in to the space under my bed. But still- its thoroughly foam-treated in there(bass traps in the corners aswell)

So, I'm as I said kinda worried whether this will work out with the rather large (compared to my small 5inch yamaha's) 8240's or not. Or will this tiny space mess upp the lower frequencies to a too large extent?

Is this way of furnishing/arranging a bed alcove studio setup extremely bad acoustically? would it give the 8240's a lot of trouble do you think? Right now I'm really leaning towards the 8240's but would I be better of getting the 8030's?

Sorry about asking so many questions!
Thanks!