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Genelec upgrade suggestions

genelec-101, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Genelec upgrade suggestions

Youngling Viestejä: 10 Liittymispäivä: 12.7.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
I've been enjoying my 1029a's with a 7050A sub for about 10 years and I'd like suggestions on upgrades.
Using them for as a 2.1 system for music & sound for my plasma.

System:
Mac mini running lossless files from an external HDD through Pure Music/iTunes.
USB out to Peachtree Audio's iDAC (Optical audio from TV).
RCA out to Firestone Audio MASS preamplifier + power supply.
SpeakerDudes and SubDude under Genelecs.

My listening space is a loft with 3m ceilings, a wooden floor and some acoustic treatment (carefully placed furnishings). The volume they can produce is great but I'd like a deeper stereo imaging than the near field 1029a's can give.

I'm considering 8040's with a 7060B sub - would I notice a significant difference between this set-up and my existing?

Any comments/experiences or insights appreciated!
1038, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Jedi Master Viestejä: 340 Liittymispäivä: 6.4.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
I would first suggest that you listen to your current speakers in different positions within your room. The imaging you experience is largely your room/monitor/listening position interface, i don't know where you have the 1029's currently, but disconnect them from the sub and listen full range in a few different locations to see what you get. Without knowing what your room looks like it is hard to give specific advice, the only reason i suggest using your 1029's full range is that trying to keep your sub/sat system calibrated whilst experimenting with speaker placement is very difficult.

Go here http://www.genelec.com/catalogues-brochures/ and download the "Monitor Setup Guide"

You would notice a huge difference between your current setup and what you have proposed, however instead of the 8040/7060 combination, i would encourage you to consider a pair of 8250A's and no sub. The 8250's will usually be able to produce solid bass down to about 25Hz in most rooms, and the benefit of in room DSP is breathtaking. Contact your local dealer for a demo.
genelec-101, muokattu 5 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Youngling Viestejä: 10 Liittymispäivä: 12.7.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thank you so much Steve,

I guess I'm pretty screwed by my current choice of speaker positioning (see photo) for a room of this size (extends 3m back from camera position into kitchen). As you can see my re-positioning options are limited - unless I rethink everything!

Great suggestion re 8250's - I will also audition the 8260's - or would I be spending a lot more money for little gain considering how much I'd be relying on DSP?

Thoughts and suggestions welcome...

Andy
1038, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Jedi Master Viestejä: 340 Liittymispäivä: 6.4.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Andy, actually the room you have is very good, not having a solid reflecting surface directly behind you is a good thing. The negatives of the room is that you have poor L/R symmetry, but to be honest so do 95% of the rooms we listen to music in. The DSP benfits for you would be staggering

The point i wanted to make clear was about perceived soundstage, i wanted to focus your attention onto speaker placement and reinforce that a different speaker would most likely not provide the depth you were looking for if everything else remained static.

Looking at your image, i think the first thing you should do is to raise the speakers up above the top of the television, even if you have to sit them on empty cardboard boxes for the exercise, raise them up and have a quick listen, you will be amazed at the difference. I can't emphasize strongly enough how critical speaker placement is, play a nice simple acoustic track with either a solo piano or guitar and a great vocal, simply move your speakers 600mm up and listen. For this exercise, you could leave your sub connected as the phase relationship won't change very much, good luck, have fun with the exercise and report back and let me know what you discover...

8260's, now you are talking, no sub needed for them, i typically see 18 - 20 Hz in room with these, and the coax mid/tweeter is a thing of beauty, you really need to audition them.

As to what value the sound quality improvement is worth is a purely personal matter. A personal friend of mine bought some 8250's off me a few years ago, we have both been in the "Audiophile" end of the market for about 30 years (makes me feel old when i type that...) We have both owned all types of exotic av equipment, and are both critical listeners. Once i explained the acoustic penalties of placing any loudspeaker inside a room, and was able to show him the impact the room had on the sound, it was like a veil was lifted in his mind, most of us historically have used cables and electronics to "EQ" our systems (though it isn't what we perceive we are doing), and the audiophile community has paid scant lip service to acoustics, the exciting thing i now see is a shift from within the audiophile community where acoustics is being considered.

Sorry to ramble, but the point of the above story was that when the 8260's were released, we both sat down and compared the 50's to the 60's, the difference is difficult to sum up, it is not massive, yet if you are a listener, once you have heard something it is impossible to "un-hear" it, my friend bought the 8260's and loves them.

From the brief bits of information i have, i think 8250's should be high on your priority list, but do yourself a favour and at least try and listen to a pair of 60's.. Either will easily eclipse what you currently have.
genelec-101, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Youngling Viestejä: 10 Liittymispäivä: 12.7.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Steve - thank you again,

Fabulous notes. Great advice. All relevant & concise, not rambling. LOTS to think about.

Everything better with speakers raised...auditions for upgrade organised.

One last question:

The Peachtree iDAC & Firestone are a fairly recent purchase (& a very complimentary combination)...with either the 8050's or 8060's I'm guessing this means I should also consider upgrading to a Bel Canto Dac/Pre combination or similar?
(suggestions welcome)...which I'll be saving up for!

Andy
1038, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Jedi Master Viestejä: 340 Liittymispäivä: 6.4.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Andy,

I have no experience with any of the pre/DAC units that you mention, one option for you to consider is to send your source directly to the 8200 speaker you end up with, 8250/60's have AES/EBU and analog inputs, so if you are only running digital sources, you can eliminate another link in the signal chain and use GLM as a volume control...

The sound of the 8200's running digital in is fantastic, it is only volume control that at the moment is not very user friendly in the home (ie must have computer running with GLM and eithr mouse or USB Griffin Control) I have heard whispers that this interface is being looked into, i am sure i read it in this forum in the last 6 months. An iPad/iPhone/Android app would really round off the product for in-home use.

Although the speakers' input is AES/EBU it is robust enough to accept a S/PDIF input as long as the source cable is kept short, i have had no problems running a 2m cable. There are S/PDIF - AES/EBU converters available and my friend who purchased the 8260's is now using a Drawmer Pro Clock that i suppled which allows him to switch multiple digital inputs and convert 75Ohm S/PDIF to 110Ohm AES.
genelec-101, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Youngling Viestejä: 10 Liittymispäivä: 12.7.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Thanks Steve,

I have wondered about digital input but I do like remote volume control and source switching. The DAC/Pre combo gives me this nicely (and they are very discrete - currently tucked under my TV in the photo) with Apple remote on my iPhone/iPod touch for music selection.

Eliminating links in the chain would obviously be the best outcome...So - here's hoping for an interface that has a remote with volume & source control, can accept usb digital and S/PDIF inputs and generates a suitable AES/EBU output;

I guess, similar to this:

http://www.aprilmusic.com/eng/main/sub02_03_05.html

but with a remote & volume...

Ah - found it (FireWire inputs only though):

http://www.weiss-highend.ch/int202/index.html

Any further suggestions welcome!

Andy
1038, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Jedi Master Viestejä: 340 Liittymispäivä: 6.4.2009 Viimeisimmät viestit
Hi Andy,

the interface is critical for your enjoyment of your system, when you can navigate your collection or quickly look up music, it encourages you to use your system more.

I believe that this is a market segment that will offer many options in a few years from now, computer based systems running optimised software reading from a vast storage repository, NAS and/or cloud based. Optimised PC's running programs like JRiver or XBMC, interfaces on 10" tablets that allow for all kinds of search criteria.

For the moment it sounds like what you own, meets your needs very well, i think a little fine tuning of the system, like we have discussed above is really all you need to worry about at the moment. Once the fine tuning is finished i suggest, you pour yourself a nice drink, sit down and enjoy some great music...
genelec-101, muokattu 9 Vuodet sitten.

Re: Genelec upgrade suggestions

Youngling Viestejä: 10 Liittymispäivä: 12.7.2012 Viimeisimmät viestit
Steve - I most definitely will!

Thanks again for all of your advice.

Andy