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Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

pablo, modified 9 Months ago.

Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 0 Join Date: 8/11/19 Recent Posts

Hi,

I am looking to upgrade my G4s to some 8341s having demoed them with the local genelec rep. 

 

My current source is a blue sound node 2i. I am willing to upgrade, but wondered if the 8341s would be ok with a digital signal converted from 75-110ohms using a passive/active converter. I understand that there is some slight differences in the signals as well. Does anyone have any experience of this?

If not, does anyone have any recommendations for what to use as a domestic source with aes/ebu outputs? I like having airplay 2 and Spotify connect for simplicity and when friends come over. The other option os to get an external DAC with XLR output does anyone have any recommendations for these?

klassikmann, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 18 Join Date: 4/6/17 Recent Posts

Hello pablo,

perhaps this helps:
​​​​​​​https://www.community.genelec.com/forum/-/message_boards/message/999118

klassikmann

jappi, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Padawan Posts: 36 Join Date: 7/28/16 Recent Posts

There are many options to properly convert to aes/ebu. Some of the products available are pretty expensive and provide other functions as well (which might make it a reasonable purchase for you). Namely M2Tech, Mutec, Antelope, RME etc. I have personally used RME ADI-2 and Antelope Pure2 which both include A/D/A capabilities and a good headphone amp too. Then there are format converters like Mutec MC 1.1+ or more expensive re-clockers like MC 3+. M2Tech has Hiface Evo Two usb-bridge that has capability to work as format converter too. It's more like consumer product with upgrade options for psu and reference clock (buying all of these will cost a fortune). WHat I would recommend is purchasing ADI-2 or Pro version if you have use for A/D or D/A and headphone amp as well. If you want to stretch a bit more then Antelope Pure 2 can be a good option. If you have no need for any of those and distance is short (<5 m) just buy s/pdif - aes/ebu patch cable and it will work fine without any impedance matching.

janne-koo, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Padawan Posts: 28 Join Date: 10/26/15 Recent Posts

I use a S/PDIF source and either a Neutrik NADITBNC-M passive impedance converter for copper interfaces (mostly a Topping D10) or a Hosa ODL-312 if the source is optical (yes, Chromecast Audio works). Just to be on the safe side, all cables used as digital interconnects are 110 ohm DMX/AES.

At first, I wired direct from RCA S/PDIF to AES/EBU XLR with your average mic cable (3 m), it also worked without an issue.

8330's/7350 here, but not much difference, I dare assume.

svenz, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts

For short runs you don't need anything fancy. As it's digital it either works or it doesn't work - if it works there is no loss of sound quality. I'm using https://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_aes_ebu_spdif_cable_male_3.htm (which is probably overkill) and a cheap optical<->coax converter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tendak-Optical-Bi-directional-Converter-Splitter/dp/B0791YG1X4/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=optical+coax+spdif+converter&qid=1574877588&sr=8-4), hooked up to my PC motherboard's spdif out. This whole setup costs 25£ and works with 8330s.

Hosa ODL-312 would be nice but at 100£+ it's quite a bit more expensive. There's no point in spending money on DACs or anything else as your speakers have amazing DACs already built in.

maxx999, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/2/19 Recent Posts

I tried with just SPDIF - RCA XLR to Sub and normal XLR between speakers and seemed to work fine. Why would I need AES/EBU cables or impedance converters? Can anyone answer this based on knowledge. I know there is a difference in the impedance, but like you write - digital either works or doesn't, so mine seems to work and I don't hear any crackle or pops, so why spend money on AES/EBU cables and impedance converter?

svenz, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts

If you don't hear any problems, then you are likely fine. Impedance mismatch causes a lot of jitter in the signal. As long as the cable is not too long, depending on the source sampling rate, you can get away with the impedance mismatch. How this affects the analogue output depends entirely on the Genelec speaker DAC. Poorly designed DACs will bleed through the jitter into the analogue (although debatable whether that is even audible). Good quality ones re-clock the input so can basically filter out all the jitter, unless it is too severe (you would get a drop out in this case). As no one has measured the Genelec DAC, no one can say for sure if the jitter would actually affect the output. It is very unlikely though as almost all modern DACs do a good job of this and I'd be very surprised if the Genelecs had this kind of problem.

For peace of mind I will probably get an impedance converter myself as Genelec recommends it, but I have had no obvious problems with the 3m patch cable on 44khz source that I listed before.

 

clearsound, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 5 Join Date: 11/2/19 Recent Posts

Hi,

Here's an Issue I'm struggling with and wondering whether one of you might have encountered something similar?

Sending anything over 96kHz to my 8341 pair via AES - one works flawlessly, the other one loses signal, cracks and pops and the LED on the front blinks yellow.

I have tried 2 different interfaces, both with spdif & aes signals & multiple cables (max 3m); Disconnected, reconnected, reset both speakers and calibration... 

Connecting just one cable directly from the interface (no passthrough) will have the same speaker not working above 96 kHz even if it's alone.

The fact that one speaker works without any issues and the other one does not makes me suspect something is off...

What do you think? Did I miss something or got something wrong?

janne-koo, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Padawan Posts: 28 Join Date: 10/26/15 Recent Posts

That does seem bad; What you've done seems like a thorough enough diagnostic process with a definite (bad) result.

Contact Genelec support via email or other more direct channels.

​There should be no problem. The system I described a few posts back - I've used it with a passive source switch in between, cable runs DDC S/PDIF -> 0,5m -> passive impedance converter -> 1m -> passive signal switch -> 5m -> sub -> 3m -> right -> 5m -> left  without any issues even at 192 kHz, although my 8330's probably don't do much (if anything) with that rate. Decent quality 110 ohm cables all around, though.

clearsound, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 5 Join Date: 11/2/19 Recent Posts

Something seems wrong... contacted Genelec support and my local dealer - waiting to hear their take on this...

I do have very good cables and my total distance is about 3.5 meters. 0.5 interface > speaker A > 3m > Speaker B. Don't have a sub (yet...).

The worrying thing is this only happens with one of them so I suspect something might be wrong with it.

jani-oksanen, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Jedi Master Posts: 427 Join Date: 3/30/17 Recent Posts

Hi there, we have reached to you directly on e-mail to solve the issue.
​​​​​​​
​​​​​​​If anyone else encounters similar issue, please contact us at service@genelec.com

Best Regards,
Jani Oksanen
​​​​​​​Customer Support Team

xoran, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Advice for AES/EBU input on 8341

Youngling Posts: 1 Join Date: 1/8/20 Recent Posts

hi all, 

I also wanted to feed my Genelecs (8330 with Subwoofer 7350 + GLM kit). And I have found exremely cost effective solution which for me works flawlessly.

Net net - for very little $ one can get great USB to SPDIF card and for less then 100$/100EUR connect to speakers adn for 50$ more i have 4 digital inputs switch and 2 machines/sources .... I do not know about latencies but as it is based on XU208 USB chipset I think it is very low and should work very well for monitoring purposes.

If you already have output in SPDIF format then just get one of those Toslink to Coax converters and cable and you are done for less then 50$.

Am using it in 2 scenarios - one output from little streamer (running linux) SingleBoardComputer (about 50 EUR) for play music (roon labs, tidal , local library etc) as well as from my Macbook pro.

I bought 2 USB to S/PDIF (Coax and Optical Toslink output) little adapters by Douk Audio/Nobsound Converter USB to SPDIF Coaxial/Optical (about 50 EUR https://www.amazon.de/dp/B072BWTCL9 ) ... and from those devices Coax S/PDIF to Genelecs I tried both Coax-AES/EBU cable which worked flawlessly (about 20 EUR https://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_aes_ebu_spdif_cable_male_3.htm ) as well as via regular Coax S/PDIF cable to Neutrik adapter (Neutrik NADIT BNC-M about 50 EUR) https://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_naditbncm.htm ) and then regular AES/EBU cable from it to Genelec's . If that's all you need - dont spend $ on expensive adapters - this works great.

Since i have 2 of these sources (they have optical outputs) and i made small investment - am using Toslink outputs into S/PDIF switcher (about 20 EUR: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07FJRB8SK/) and then Toslink to Coax converter (15 EUR https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01CQMPWKM/ ) and then from that Coax with any of the above cable solutions (Coax to AES/EBU or via Neutrik) and that worked flawlessly. 

Cool is now i have 'digital preamp' with 4 optical inputs and i am using only 2 with remote so i can switch between linux streamer and macbook easily.

I had zero issues, have tried various sample rates ... this optical setup does go to 192kHz though I've read Genelecs do not seem to benefit from more then 48kHz that they are using internally but I wanted to check. 

Toslink to Coax converter initially i bought another one (https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07ZNR4N9F/ ) and though it worked great up to 96kHz and Toslink out worked at 192kHz as well Coax output would only work @96kHz. Again was no issue but i wanted it 'perfect' and went with KW-Mobile adapter in 1st link.

 

Hope this helps someone :) !