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8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

ensoniq, modified 5 Years ago.

8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 47 Join Date: 5/30/15 Recent Posts
Good evening ,

I wonder how to interpret the following section of the Operating Manual .
On page 3 of the manual I can read:

"If the digital source device has a volume fader that controls the
digital level, it may be advantageous to lower the level control
either on the computer interface or on the monitor’s back panel
controls, which in turn will force the use of more of the digital [bit]
resolution in the volume control."


I own a high end -ish Lynx PCIe AES/EBU card and this card comes with its own controll and mixer software. AES/EBU channel levels are set to -6db . I thought when I use the volume control of GML Software (using the harware controller knob) I will get the best level of detail and sound. But the manual paragraph is telling me more or less a contrary story. I am sure I don´t really undersand how to setup both , the AES/ EBU card volume controller (software) and the GML volume to get the best result. Can someone give me some advise please

much appreciated :-)
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hello,

You have understood it just right. :) I think the operating manual statement may be little bit confusing but the 'computer interface' there means the GLM software.
ensoniq, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 47 Join Date: 5/30/15 Recent Posts
thanks for clarification,

Genelec should update this specific part of the manual- it is really confusing ;-)
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
thanks for clarification,

Genelec should update this specific part of the manual- it is really confusing ;-)

Thanks, I will send feedback. :)
nachjos, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 41 Join Date: 10/21/16 Recent Posts
@Ilkka
I am planning to buy a 9101A remote for volume control (I own a GLM 2.0 set).

My signal chain is as following:

DIgital: Auralic Aries -> Digital out (AES/XLR) -> Genelec 8351A (Digital In) -> Digital Thru (AES) -> Genelec 8351A (Digital In) --> primarily for loudspeaker listening

Analog: Auralic Aries -> Digital out (USB) -> Auralic Vega DAC -> Analog out (XLR) -> Violectric V281 Preamp -> Analog out (XLR) -> Genelec 8351A (Analog In) --> primarily for headphone listening

At the time (until I purchase a 9101A remote) I will use the software volume control option of the Aries which sound much worse to the Analog path described above, especially at low/very low volumes. I have to use between 5 and 10 of 100 for background music.

So I am afraid that the Genelec volume control which works also in the digital domain will show similar results.

What is Genelecs experience about the integrated (digital) volume control compared to a good analog volume control of a preamp, especially at low/very low volumes?

And if using Analog/Digital In both connected at the same time
- is there a sound degration? (so it's better to use only one Input option)
- auto switch to the Input path which delivers a signal?
- if there is a signal on both Inputs, is there a prefered Input selection?

And what's about AutoCal and SystemLevel
- the same for Digital and Analog In?
- if yes, should I process AutoCal with Digital or Analog In?
- does SystemLevel have a impact on Digital In anyway?
- should I always use 100% volume from the source and use volume control from Genelec?

A lot of questions...

I would be very happy for useful answers to optimize my setup.
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

Thanks for your questions. :)

You should first notice that the signal path inside the monitor is exactly the same for both analog and digital inputs, except for the additional A/D conversion done for the analog input.

Since you have the GLM 2.0 kit, you can already test the effect of volume control by using the main fader (the 9101A will control the same fader) via the software. It is recommended to maximise the level at the signal source and use GLM to control volume. That way you will have the best signal quality. Main fader and SystemLevel affect the same volume.

If the GLM is not running, analog input is preferred over the digital, assuming there is no digital signal available (not even digital silence). As soon as digital signal is present, digital input will be used.
nachjos, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 41 Join Date: 10/21/16 Recent Posts
Thanx Ilkka for the clarification. So I will order a Genelec remote for my GLM.

But I like to store the AutoCal/SystemLevel setting in the monitors. Will the input autoselection analog/digital work in that use case (because the input path is part of the stored profile)?
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
I am not sure what you mean by "AutoCal/SystemLevel" setting? There are two settings for level in the GLM software: 1) individual level adjustment for each monitor and subwoofer via the acoustical settings window, and 2) overall system level via the main fader. The former is group specific and the latter is setup specific.

Input signal is only forced if you have the GLM software running, otherwise it will have auto-selection according to the rules described earlier.
nachjos, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 41 Join Date: 10/21/16 Recent Posts
After AutoCal I will store the profile in the monitor. The GLM network adapter will stay for volume control by 9101A. The selected SystemLevel will be stored too. Because only one profile could be stored in the monitor, I have to use the same profile settings for digital and analog input. That means sound profile and level preset. That is my understanding.

What is still not clear for me: Can I switch between analog and digital input using the same stored sound profile and level preset (without connected laptop or PC)?

I don't like to connect a laptop or PC all the time and use it to switch between sound profiles or setting the volume level.

@Ilkka
I prepared my setup for volume control with 9101A by connecting the GLM Adapter. But now I got no sound anymore out of the monitors. I use Digital In. Network cable is like following: GLM > 8351 Network In > 8351 Network Thru > 8351 Network In. The GLM adapter is powered by a 5V power supply (GLM Led is on). Do you have any idea?
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts

What is still not clear for me: Can I switch between analog and digital input using the same stored sound profile and level preset (without connected laptop or PC)?

Yes, it will work.


I prepared my setup for volume control with 9101A by connecting the GLM Adapter. But now I got no sound anymore out of the monitors. I use Digital In. Network cable is like following: GLM > 8351 Network In > 8351 Network Thru > 8351 Network In. The GLM adapter is powered by a 5V power supply (GLM Led is on). Do you have any idea?

There is a safety feature which mutes the outputs when ever the network is connected. You need to start the GLM and turn the fader up.
nachjos, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 41 Join Date: 10/21/16 Recent Posts
I've got my 9101A remote today. First I have to smile - such a big package and such a small unit! :D

But it does the job and my first expression is very promising: No (much less if any) noticeable sound degration compared to Aries software volume control, works extremely reliable and is quite handy.

Just one thing: The operating manual describes a feature to set the monitors to stand-by mode by pushing and holding Power/Standby button. But this doesn't work in my setup. Do I probably need a firmware update for my GLM adapter?
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
I am very glad to hear that! :)

The stand-by function is only available in Beta firmware which is not yet available for public use. Please wait.
ensoniq, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Padawan Posts: 47 Join Date: 5/30/15 Recent Posts
@ Ilkka , I have another question related to Volume and Sound Quality. Now in the anlog space.

Do I have audio- quality misandvantage (?) when :

>I calibrate my 8260 anaolg and store the calibration preset at full dB level to the 8260
>connecting the 8260 with analog XLR to my Discplayers ´XLR out.
>Controlling the anaolg volume output with my discplayer´s remote control

The reason for that approach is my wife. She is complaining about all the wires behind the Genelec (Network cable, USB, AES, XLR, wireless Hub) . Therefore I try to find the smartest solution to get rid of the digital and wireless GLM controll behind the speakers ;-) However I don´t want to ruin the audio quality of the speakers

thank you very much
looking forward to your answer
ilkka-rissanen, modified 5 Years ago.

Re: 8351 and 8260: Digital Volume Fader and Sound Quality

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

I would recommend to store the volume for example at -20 dB level so that the input level will be higher.