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8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

avantmidi, modified 6 Years ago.

8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Youngling Posts: 15 Join Date: 5/28/15 Recent Posts
Now here is another question that in theory keeps me thinking.
Perhaps this is a pretty hard question. I'm wondering if you guys tested /came across this scenario before.

Here it is:

When I clock my UAD Apollo 16 via AES/EBU (in) (Slave) to my Cransong Hedd 192 (out) (Master) the overal sound of the whole system changes and in this case improves the soundstage of the UAD Apollo 16 allot to my taste.
More 3D, more open, smoother highs and more refined bass response.
So I now know that at least in this configuration Clock does makes a remarkable difference in soundstage and converter response DA.

Once the 8351's are in my studio i'm going to hook them up using the AES/EBU output of my Apollo 16 @ 24bit/96khz.
So this is let's say also the "native" output resolution of the 8351's DA stage right? I read it "reclocks" to 24/96khz...or does it?

Do the 8351's reclock sample rates? I other words: Does the 8351's apply their own clock or do they Slave automatically?
Will I be still able to hear the improvement the Hedd192 gives my system as a master clock?
Or do the 8351's reclock any digital signal anyway so they always sound the same clock/response wise when connected digitally?

Thinking of it? Would it be able to change the character of the 8351's reclocking their ADDA by a master clock via AES/EBU? I did not see a master/slave setting on the GLM 2.0 software yet. But thinking of it this might be a feature maybe. 8351's clocked by an Antelope Atomic clock :lol:

Ofcourse I will post the report about this once the 8351's are in.
It would be great if you can inform me about the high level technical implementation of the converters/clock while i'm waiting for them to arrive. I'm not asking for chipsets and part numbers of course. I know this is confidential.
I'm just very curious about how the re-clocking and/or master slave behavior of the 8351's work.
Thank you in advance for your reaction!

All the best,
Avantmidi
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts

Once the 8351's are in my studio i'm going to hook them up using the AES/EBU output of my Apollo 16 @ 24bit/96khz.
So this is let's say also the "native" output resolution of the 8351's DA stage right? I read it "reclocks" to 24/96khz...or does it?

Yes, the speaker always uses 24bit/96kHz for the tweeter and 24bit/48kHz for the midrange and woofer (limited bandwidth requirement).


Do the 8351's reclock sample rates? I other words: Does the 8351's apply their own clock or do they Slave automatically?

The speaker always uses its own clock.


Will I be still able to hear the improvement the Hedd192 gives my system as a master clock?
Or do the 8351's reclock any digital signal anyway so they always sound the same clock/response wise when connected digitally?

This is a subjective opinion. :)
joerggermany, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Padawan Posts: 36 Join Date: 12/23/13 Recent Posts
...
Yes, the speaker always uses 24bit/96kHz for the tweeter and 24bit/48kHz for the midrange and woofer (limited bandwidth requirement). ...



Hi Ilkka,

is it the same for 8260?

Gruss Jörg
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
...
Yes, the speaker always uses 24bit/96kHz for the tweeter and 24bit/48kHz for the midrange and woofer (limited bandwidth requirement). ...



Hi Ilkka,

is it the same for 8260?

Gruss Jörg

Yes it is the same for 8260.
limesoft, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Youngling Posts: 11 Join Date: 7/3/15 Recent Posts
I have the 8330 SAM and wanted to know if there's an advantage in using 24bit 192khz source (AES digital input)? My understanding is it's a no as the signal will be changed to 96khz in the DA stage anyway, is that right?

On a side note to whoever is interested, I noticed that using a good coax out with reduced jitter to the monitors does make a difference in sound for the better, I'm using the m2tech hiface 2 which has a nice digital out with reduced jitter. I find that my 8330s do like a nice clean digital signal (who doesn't!)
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
I have the 8330 SAM and wanted to know if there's an advantage in using 24bit 192khz source (AES digital input)? My understanding is it's a no as the signal will be changed to 96khz in the DA stage anyway, is that right?

Do you have true 24 bit / 192 kHz source material? :) Or perhaps upsampled 16 bit / 44,1 kHz?
limesoft, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Youngling Posts: 11 Join Date: 7/3/15 Recent Posts
I have the 8330 SAM and wanted to know if there's an advantage in using 24bit 192khz source (AES digital input)? My understanding is it's a no as the signal will be changed to 96khz in the DA stage anyway, is that right?

Do you have true 24 bit / 192 kHz source material? :) Or perhaps upsampled 16 bit / 44,1 kHz?


I do have true 24bit 192khz source, and using m2tech hiface 2 coax > aes neutrik > genelec 8330. I am asking as there is chance to get the same source as 96khz, so if my 8330s downsample 192 to 96, it's probably better to just use the 96k source to start with. Is that right?

Does the AD stage also use 96khz? Analog in AD > 96khz (hf) > DSP > DA ?
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Best option is to test it yourself. If you can't hear any difference, then it makes no sense to acquire 192 kHz source material. Technically speaking there shouldn't be any difference at all, but that doesn't stop marketing people from coming up with higher and higher numbers every year. You should also notice that there is no scientific evidence of frequencies higher than 20 kHz affecting to our brains or auditory system. There is a very valid reason why Red Book specifies 44.1 kHz sampling frequency.
ensoniq, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Padawan Posts: 47 Join Date: 5/30/15 Recent Posts
@ Illka , you mentioned that also the 8260 converts signal 24bit/96kHz for the tweeter and 24bit/48kHz for mid speaker and bass. I am very curious to understand why Genelec had chosen this spec ? thanks

btw: the 8260 still rocks !
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
@ Illka , you mentioned that also the 8260 converts signal 24bit/96kHz for the tweeter and 24bit/48kHz for mid speaker and bass. I am very curious to understand why Genelec had chosen this spec ? thanks

btw: the 8260 still rocks !

Hi,

It is chosen because woofer and middle are any ways band limited. The woofer bandwidth goes only up to ~500 Hz and the mid up to ~3 kHz, so there is no reason to waste processing power for high frequencies. Even a lower sampling frequency could be used there.
soundwave, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Youngling Posts: 12 Join Date: 7/17/17 Recent Posts

Hi

Any updates on how the reclocking is done in the Ones series? I have a pair of 8331+7350 and I am thinking about buying a MUTEC MC-3+ USB reclocker, but if I have understood correctly, it can not have an impact to the sound, since Genelecs will apply their own reclocking. Am I right? :)

ensoniq, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: 8351 DSP/SAM RE-CLOCK Samplerate?

Padawan Posts: 47 Join Date: 5/30/15 Recent Posts

I was trying  to do (achieving) the same 3 years ago and  I noticed that there is no impact at all . The Genelecs are always using its own clock. Therefore you will not hear a difference when using higher sample rates or external Master clocks. There is no re-clocking (ewg WC Master / Slave) 

 I am using  a 8260 + 8531 Surround setup.  What I have noticed with a professional high end Audio Interface and DAC (Metric Halo ULN-8/ 3D)  was that I prefered the direct ADA conversion of the Gens compared to the DDA  path. My suspicion was that the the Genelec doesn´t receivce  external clock signals. Maybe Ilka can comment on that.  

My conclusion after 3 +years was  that a so called "high end" audio signals sounds better by making use of the ADA signal path compared to the DDA path.  Maybe because of a single consistent ADA conversion instead of  ADDA. But sure thing is also that it all depends on your own listening patterns. I personally consider the Gens signal via ADA more musical (to m ears) .  In that respect I haveI compared  the Gens with non DSP- Monitors , a pair of PSI Audio 25. This comparison convinced me even more to my personal judgement regarding the Gens ADA vs ADDA.