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8351 latency & symetrical placement

avantmidi, modified 6 Years ago.

8351 latency & symetrical placement

Youngling Posts: 15 Join Date: 5/28/15 Recent Posts
last week ordered a pair of 8351 and a glm 2.0 kit.
I cannot wait to start using them:)!

How much latency will I experience when I Have the 8351 connected via AES/EBU?
Can i place both 8351 horizontally/Landscape with the Genelec logo's facing my display.
Do the 2 race track woofer function the same way? Is there no placement/orientation requirement?

Thanks voor your answers and making such incredible tools!
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 latency & symetrical placement

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

Average latency in the midrange is about 5ms when using either analogue or AES/EBU input.

8351 can be placed both horizontally/vertically depending on the space and directivity requirements. Directivity will extend down to lower frequencies along the longer dimension of the cabinet, i.e. if your speakers are placed next to a wall, our recommendation is to use horizontal orientation. If there is boundary beneath them, vertical orientation will work better.
avantmidi, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 latency & symetrical placement

Youngling Posts: 15 Join Date: 5/28/15 Recent Posts
Thank you very much for the reply. Very much appreciated.
I'm a little confused?

8330 have 3ms latnecy due to dsp right? I read that in another thread.
8351 have 5ms latency due to dsp? Why is the latency bigger on the 8351?
Is the Latency different because of the midrange driver?
Your speaking of Average latency? Isn't latency due to dsp a constant numer of ms?
I really hope the additional latency of 5ms from the 8351 is n0t something that wil get in the way during producing/composing...probably not. I guess thats the concession one must make to experience the benefits of "realtime" DSP room correction.

Concerning placement: does it matter how they are placed horizontally?
I want to set them up in a symmetrical way.
Genelec logo (bottom in vertical) facing inside on both L & R is ok?
Like this: $= Genelec logo/bottom in vertical position:

[===O===$] (34" LG 21/9 widescreen display) [$===O===]

Thanks for your reply in advance!

Now something different but also latency related.
I understand you guys have nothing to do with Subpac. Tough I thought it was a good one to share.
I'm thinking about maybe adding a subpac S2 tactile feedback transducer pac for in my chair.
Just because this new tech is cool and seems to really work in a stellar way.

http://thesubpac.com

I really like the idea of using it togheter with the high tech 8351.
In theory this is the perfect marriage of next level nearfield audio monitoring

Connection wise the 8351 and subpack are not related and do not have dependencies from one and another.
8351's will be fed by my Apollo 16 AES/EBU @ 24BIT/96KHZ.
Subpac S2 will be fed by the L&R Analog master output of the Apollo 16.

Hopefully the additional 5 ms latency introduced by the 8351's does not make the "fast & direct" response of the Subpac feel out of sync with the sound coming from the 8351's.

Probably Subpac is always a couple ms faster than any straight analog monitoring solution due to the fact that it does not need to produce audio traveling from the speaker into the room (hence a couple of ms depending on the room).
However most Subpac users do not report noticable latency between Analog monitoring and the Subpac response.
Very interested if you guys @ Genelec tried a Subpac yet and what your experiences are with it.

Well wel will see once the setup is here up and running.

All the best form the Netherlands,

Avantmidi
ilkka-rissanen, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 latency & symetrical placement

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Thank you very much for the reply. Very much appreciated.
I'm a little confused?

8330 have 3ms latnecy due to dsp right? I read that in another thread.
8351 have 5ms latency due to dsp? Why is the latency bigger on the 8351?
Is the Latency different because of the midrange driver?
Your speaking of Average latency? Isn't latency due to dsp a constant numer of ms?
I really hope the additional latency of 5ms from the 8351 is n0t something that wil get in the way during producing/composing...probably not. I guess thats the concession one must make to experience the benefits of "realtime" DSP room correction.

Sorry for being vague. Actually I meant group delay which is the definition we should use here. It is frequency dependent for which I quoted the average value in the midrange (typically quoted at 1 kHz). 8330 and 8351 have different kind of DSP processing inside them (for example other is three-way speaker) which results in slightly different group delay values. 5ms delay is short enough for musicians to do live tracking, as well as significantly shorter than half of a video frame. Such loudspeaker delay should hence not be a problem for any practical application.


Concerning placement: does it matter how they are placed horizontally?
I want to set them up in a symmetrical way.
Genelec logo (bottom in vertical) facing inside on both L & R is ok?
Like this: $= Genelec logo/bottom in vertical position:

[===O===$] (34" LG 21/9 widescreen display) [$===O===]

Loudspeakers are symmetrical in that sense so your proposed placement will work just fine.

Hopefully the additional 5 ms latency introduced by the 8351's does not make the "fast & direct" response of the Subpac feel out of sync with the sound coming from the 8351's.

Probably Subpac is always a couple ms faster than any straight analog monitoring solution due to the fact that it does not need to produce audio traveling from the speaker into the room (hence a couple of ms depending on the room).
However most Subpac users do not report noticable latency between Analog monitoring and the Subpac response.
Very interested if you guys @ Genelec tried a Subpac yet and what your experiences are with it.

Unfortunately we don't have any experience with Subpac, but I would estimate that 5ms delay won't pose any issues there due to the frequencies produced. For example 1 cycle of 50 Hz wave equals to 20ms, so 5ms is only one quarter of a full wave.
avantmidi, modified 6 Years ago.

Re: 8351 latency & symetrical placement

Youngling Posts: 15 Join Date: 5/28/15 Recent Posts
Thanks allot Ilkka. This clarifies allot! Hopefully the GLM 2.0 software on mac is ready once the 8351's are in.
Probably in about 2/3 weeks time now. I will set and forget about the latency. This seems very much a technical spec instead of a practical hurdle. Of course it is good to know how it works exactly.

All the best,

Avantmidi