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from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

thegene, modified 7 Years ago.

from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/24/14 Recent Posts
Hello, I currently have a stereo setup consiting of 2* 8020a for playing church organs (hobby). I have the feeling this music category is quite demanding as the organ sounds range from very low to very high frequencies.
I want to achieve 2 goals:
[list=1:2y0cobq2]
[*:2y0cobq2]My current setup is lacking bass. I dont't dare to play too loud on these boxes, mostly at 4-5 and never past 6 o'clock. I think it would be wise to alleviate the job of the 8020a by expanding the setup.[/*:m:2y0cobq2]
[*:2y0cobq2]In order to have a more realistic spatial experience (think church reverb) i would like to have a surround setup.[/*:m:2y0cobq2][/list:o:2y0cobq2]


Room and requirements
The room is just a small and untreated square living appartment of around 25m² / 69m³.
I don't want to spend too much on a sub woofer. I heard some people have difficulty to get the 7050 working with the acoustics of living rooms double that size. Also, I have neighbours… :?
The organ instrument and front boxes are to be placed againts the wall.

Some questions
[list=1:2y0cobq2]
[*:2y0cobq2]Would it be wise to double the fronts, so that I have 2x8020a front left, and 2x8020a right left? Or would a total of 2 8030's as front be superiour?[/*:m:2y0cobq2]
[*:2y0cobq2] What boxes do I need for the rears? The distance between the listener and the wall behind will be 3.5-4 meter. I have been thinkging about two 8030's.[/*:m:2y0cobq2]
[*:2y0cobq2]The 7050b sub does not allow for 8030's in a surround setup. What If I plug the fronts in the sub, and have the rears directly connected to the audio interface?[/*:m:2y0cobq2]
[*:2y0cobq2]Would the 5040 be less likely to pose problems in my room than the 7050?[/*:m:2y0cobq2][/list:o:2y0cobq2]

I hope I don't overload you :roll:
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts
I'd suggest to take a closer look at the DSP-series. It is much easier to achieve good results in untreated rooms with these subs and/or speakers.

I would build a good stereo setup (with or without sub) and then use small monitors such as your 8020 for the rear, re-routing the low frequencies to the front or sub.
thegene, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/24/14 Recent Posts
So do you think the 8020's could be placed at 4m distance?

Regarding the dsp-series, it would be nice if they could integrate with the 8020's?
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts
Well, one the one hand, the small Genelecs are near-field. On the other hand, if you don't want a high end multi-channel systems, it might work well, especially if you - you mentioned your neighbors - want to run them at moderate levels.

If have 4010 (quite the same as 8010) as side and rear channels, rears are around 3m behind. Of course they are limited in maximum output and naturally low frequencies, however, the do work fine as rears in cinema applications. In fact, they are quite impressive. My mains are DSP Genelecs, namely 1238. I decided to go for large fronts and no sub (my focus is on stereo music, not multichannel or home cinema).

You could do something similiar: good DSP Genelecs depending on available space and budget (82xx and 12xx) and your existing monitors as rear - with an option to upgrade at a later time if really necessary.


Edit: as to question 1, I would not recommend to double any speaker.
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

Since your source is probably stereo (left and right channels), a surround setup isn't possible in a way surround is understood in home theatre. You can only multiply the number of loudspeakers for each channel but that's it. Having said that, I have heard similar "surround" setup but it contained a digital mixer which allowed proper level and delay adjustments of "rear" speaker for enhanced reverb. I doubt it will work really well if you just play same signal through all of them.

I would go with similar speakers all around, for example 8020 or 8030, and one or even two subwoofers (since organ music has a lot of strong low frequency tones) of the same type, for example 7050 or 7060. You should run all channels through the subwoofer(s), no matter which model your speakers are. A single 7050 is considered "too small" for a surround setup of 8030's, there for we don't recommend it. But it has 5 channels worth of inputs and outputs.
thegene, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/24/14 Recent Posts
Hi thx for the replies.

Since your source is probably stereo (left and right channels), a surround set-up isn't possible in a way surround is understood in home theatre.

The software is Hauptwerk and the more recent sample sets are recorded in surround. That means that for every tone there are 4 audio-channels l+r front and l+r rear. [That's why this software is quite demanding in terms of cpu and ram.]
I think this is still on par with what you call home theatre surround?

I would go with similar speakers all around, for example 8020 or 8030

So you mean I could mix and match 8020 and 8030 as they are of the same breed (similar) but not exactly identical?

A single 7050 is considered "too small" for a surround set-up of 8030's, there for we don't recommend it. But it has 5 channels worth of inputs and outputs.

If you mix 8020's and 2x8030 in a surround set-up would the 7050 still be too small?



Edit: as to question 1, I would not recommend to double any speaker.

Some hobby colleagues preferred the 8020 above their bigger siblings because of the greater clarity (in the mids I think). Your route of no subs but big mains is attractive, but do yours have to handle strong lows as well? Like Ikka said, the lows of an organ are really erhm... low.
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts
Official documents state 35 Hz - 21 kHz (+/- 2,5 dB) for the 1238. GML measurement in my room goes down close below 30 Hz on reference axis, then the graph drops rapidly, 20 Hz is about -10 dB.
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: from 2x8020a to surround: advice needed

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts

I think this is still on par with what you call home theatre surround?

Definitely! I didn't know about these kind of things, sorry. :)


So you mean I could mix and match 8020 and 8030 as they are of the same breed (similar) but not exactly identical?

Yes, you can mix them.


If you mix 8020's and 2x8030 in a surround set-up would the 7050 still be too small?

It works technically but I am just afraid those lows would put too much stress on the subwoofer. But of course you mentioned earlier that you don't play at high levels so it's a tricky situation. :)