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1237a/1238a/8260a - XLR/AES/GML Manager

bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

1237a/1238a/8260a - XLR/AES/GML Manager

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts
The products section of the Genelec Homepage does not list any documents despite a small brochure for the SAM versions 1237a/1238a.
I am in the market for Genelec speakers, took a closer look at the 8260s and want to learn more about the differences between the 8260 and 1237. Is there an online manual available for the 1237a somewhere?


Edit: changed subject as the thread drifted from the original one
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

At the moment the introduction brochure is the only document available for the 1237A and 1238A. A full operating manual will be uploaded as soon as products start shipping, which will happen soon.

Of course I can answer to your questions here. What kind of differences you are interested about that are not mentioned in the introduction brochure?
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts
Thank you for your answer! I am currently trying to find out, which SAM is best suited to my needs. The room is 9x4.6, the main listening position between 2-2.5m from the speakers and a second position 2m behind. Yes, home usage planned ;)

I currently believe, the 8260 is better suited to this task. The response is flatter in a broader range, less max output does not matter in this environment. If you disagree, please tell me!

Hijacking my own thread, I also have an additional question regarding parallel usage of AES digital and XLR analog inputs and wiring in general:

Overall plan: high quality stereo setup, 24/192, fully digital AES single wired and far less important cinema and all the rest wired XLR (and with less expensive Genelecs rear)

Without Sub:
Mac up to 24/192 -> USB -> USB/AES Link single wire (e.g. Stello U3, Musical Fidelity V-Link, Weiss 204) -> 8260 (left) -> 8260 (right)

With Sub(s) [I will start without sub(s) and see where the Genelecs take me, still want to plan for them]:
Mac up to 24/192 -> USB -> USB/AES Link single wire (e.g. Stello U3, Musical Fidelity V-Link, Weiss 204) -> 7260 -> (other 7260) -> two cables from last sub, one 8260 left and and the other 8260 right

XLR without Sub:
XLR Output -> two cables, one 8260 left and the other 8260 right

XLR with Sub
not possible, digital i/o only


Now to the question (and please, if there is an error in my wiring, tell me): the manual of the 8260 states, that digital connection is preferred to analog. However, what counts? Will a running Mac with the USB-Link already be identified as a digital connection or will the analog connection be used until there is actually something played from the Mac?
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Thank you for your answer! I am currently trying to find out, which SAM is best suited to my needs. The room is 9x4.6, the main listening position between 2-2.5m from the speakers and a second position 2m behind. Yes, home usage planned ;)

I currently believe, the 8260 is better suited to this task. The response is flatter in a broader range, less max output does not matter in this environment. If you disagree, please tell me!

I definitely recommend that you listen to both speakers side by side before making any conclusions based on technical data. Even though they are quite similar, they still have their own sound signature which has to be heard by your own ears.

So it is a home theatre application since you have two seating rows? If correct, maximum output plays a major role, especially when it comes to bass (up to at least 500 Hz) frequencies.


Hijacking my own thread, I also have an additional question regarding parallel usage of AES digital and XLR analog inputs and wiring in general:

The suggested cabling scheme is correct.


Now to the question (and please, if there is an error in my wiring, tell me): the manual of the 8260 states, that digital connection is preferred to analog. However, what counts? Will a running Mac with the USB-Link already be identified as a digital connection or will the analog connection be used until there is actually something played from the Mac?

If the GLM software is running, only either one of the inputs can be active at a time. There is no way to change this. Only possibility is to run the speakers in stand alone mode (no GLM software running) and set the digital inputs active. Then both inputs will stay active and the selection is made depending on which input receives signal. In order to to use the analogue inputs, the digital inputs can't receive any signal, not even zeroes.
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts

I definitely recommend that you listen to both speakers side by side before making any conclusions based on technical data. Even though they are quite similar, they still have their own sound signature which has to be heard by your own ears.

So it is a home theatre application since you have two seating rows? If correct, maximum output plays a major role, especially when it comes to bass (up to at least 500 Hz) frequencies.


Sadly, there is no Genelec dealer in my area to compare the speakers or ask those questions.

Position 1 is the main listening position for both stereo and home cinema, however, cinema is far less important and used. Position 2 is approx. 2.5m behind position 1, the table where we eat and work on our Notebooks, stereo only. I would generate different DSP-settings for the positions, so those places won't be used at the same time.


If the GLM software is running, only either one of the inputs can be active at a time. There is no way to change this. Only possibility is to run the speakers in stand alone mode (no GLM software running) and set the digital inputs active. Then both inputs will stay active and the selection is made depending on which input receives signal. In order to to use the analogue inputs, the digital inputs can't receive any signal, not even zeroes.


I am sorry, I still do not understand the restrictions. I think, it is active vs. connected and connected vs. running that needs some clarification.

Back to the example: Let's assume, I would have the 8260s or 1037s wired both via XLR from analog PreAmp and AES from Mac. And the GLM network wired with the Mac.

This is what I would expect:
1. GLM Software running, preamp off, AES from Mac active. Volume control via GLM Software --> fully digital stereo
2. GLM Software not running, Speakers go to stand alone mode?, preamp on, AES from Mac off or even disconnected (on the computer side, not the AES on the speakers). Volume control via PreAmp --> "analog" stereo and 5-channel

Does this work without disconnecting cables or changing DIPs on the back of the speaker? If not, do you have any idea how to solve the problem despite using a Meridian Digital Preamp (which is way to expensive)?

Just to clarify the main idea: I am in for the Genelecs for their fully digital processing and DSP with the focus on high quality audio. Still, in addition, I definitely need to connect other analog and digital devices to the Genelecs, namely tuner, satellite receiver and dvd. Without too much hassle and effort, however, compromises in the "analog" setup quality are fine.
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts

Sadly, there is no Genelec dealer in my area to compare the speakers or ask those questions.

Ok, that's a shame. Where are you located at?


I am sorry, I still do not understand the restrictions. I think, it is active vs. connected and connected vs. running that needs some clarification.

Back to the example: Let's assume, I would have the 8260s or 1037s wired both via XLR from analog PreAmp and AES from Mac. And the GLM network wired with the Mac.

This is what I would expect:
1. GLM Software running, preamp off, AES from Mac active. Volume control via GLM Software --> fully digital stereo
2. GLM Software not running, Speakers go to stand alone mode?, preamp on, AES from Mac off or even disconnected (on the computer side, not the AES on the speakers). Volume control via PreAmp --> "analog" stereo and 5-channel

Does this work without disconnecting cables or changing DIPs on the back of the speaker? If not, do you have any idea how to solve the problem despite using a Meridian Digital Preamp (which is way to expensive)?

Just to clarify the main idea: I am in for the Genelecs for their fully digital processing and DSP with the focus on high quality audio. Still, in addition, I definitely need to connect other analog and digital devices to the Genelecs, namely tuner, satellite receiver and dvd. Without too much hassle and effort, however, compromises in the "analog" setup quality are fine.

There is no problem if you can keep the GLM network connected and software running while making a switch between digital and analogue signals. Each setup file holds also information about the signal used and therefore it is straightforward to define it there.

But if you want to switch between signals without the software, it gets more difficult. You would need to create/load a digital signal setup with suitable volume level and save it to speakers, disconnect the GLM network and boot (power cycle) each speaker. After that they will power up in stand alone mode and both signal inputs will stay active and the selection is made depending on which input receives signal. In order to to use the analogue input, the digital input can't receive any signal, not even zeroes. This will work as long as you don't connect the GLM network back on. Once you do, you will have to perform same routine again to get them into stand alone mode.

You should notice that there is no audible quality difference between analogue and digital inputs. The analogue signal gets digitalized right after it enters the speaker and the signal processing is identical after that.
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts

There is no problem if you can keep the GLM network connected and software running while making a switch between digital and analogue signals. Each setup file holds also information about the signal used and therefore it is straightforward to define it there.

But if you want to switch between signals without the software, it gets more difficult. You would need to create/load a digital signal setup with suitable volume level and save it to speakers, disconnect the GLM network and boot (power cycle) each speaker. After that they will power up in stand alone mode and both signal inputs will stay active and the selection is made depending on which input receives signal. In order to to use the analogue input, the digital input can't receive any signal, not even zeroes. This will work as long as you don't connect the GLM network back on. Once you do, you will have to perform same routine again to get them into stand alone mode.


Ikka, thank you very much, things are getting much clearer. I will have Mac/GML connected all time and I am happy to switch XLR vs. AES input via the setup file. I assume in this case it does not matter if both lines carry active signals?

How about volume control? In AES stereo I will use the GML software, in analog there will be a 5-channel pre controlling volume for all 5 speakers (2 DSP Genelecs, the others will likely be non-dsp versions). Will the later work leaving the genelec software at a fixed volume level or am I running into troubles there?


You should notice that there is no audible quality difference between analogue and digital inputs. The analogue signal gets digitalized right after it enters the speaker and the signal processing is identical after that.


Sure. I was concerned running the Mac highres files through the digital 5 channel preamp or worse have an additional DA/AD conversion. Which directly leads me to a final question: when a digital signal via AES is received at the 8260 - is there any special threatment to reduce jitter or some kind of buffering/reclocking? The question arises as the more expensive USB/AES Links promise special treatment for cleaner output from computer and I want to estimate, how important that will be, there is quite a price range in those boxes...
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a documentation

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts

Ikka, thank you very much, things are getting much clearer. I will have Mac/GML connected all time and I am happy to switch XLR vs. AES input via the setup file. I assume in this case it does not matter if both lines carry active signals?

Correct.


How about volume control? In AES stereo I will use the GML software, in analog there will be a 5-channel pre controlling volume for all 5 speakers (2 DSP Genelecs, the others will likely be non-dsp versions). Will the later work leaving the genelec software at a fixed volume level or am I running into troubles there?

It will work just fine. You would set the master volume in GLM to a fixed level depending on the gain of your pre amplifier.


Sure. I was concerned running the Mac highres files through the digital 5 channel preamp or worse have an additional DA/AD conversion. Which directly leads me to a final question: when a digital signal via AES is received at the 8260 - is there any special threatment to reduce jitter or some kind of buffering/reclocking? The question arises as the more expensive USB/AES Links promise special treatment for cleaner output from computer and I want to estimate, how important that will be, there is quite a price range in those boxes...

I don't see need for that kind of device because 8260 has a very sophisticated signal processing when it comes to AES/EBU clock signal. We have carefully ensured that the possible jitter in the signal will be eliminated and doesn't cause any measurable or audible degradation of the signal.
bourne, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a/8260a - XLR/AES/GML Manager

Padawan Posts: 74 Join Date: 2/26/14 Recent Posts
Brief question, not worth an own thread: does the GML Manager software display the current resolution of digital audio input, e.g. 16-24bit, 44.1-192 kHz?
ilkka-rissanen, modified 7 Years ago.

Re: 1237a/1238a/8260a - XLR/AES/GML Manager

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Brief question, not worth an own thread: does the GML Manager software display the current resolution of digital audio input, e.g. 16-24bit, 44.1-192 kHz?

Hi,

There is no indication of the bit resolution or sampling frequency.
digipete, modified 7 Years ago.

Word length and sample rate

Padawan Posts: 99 Join Date: 6/18/11 Recent Posts
Many players display word length and sample rate, some even number of channels.

I Like:

Pure Music http://www.channld.com/puremusic/
Audirvana + http://audirvana.com

Audirvana + can also do surround and shows container & channels in the display,
e.g.. FLAC 24/96kHz 5.1 - both for source file and DAC.