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Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro?

pekka-v, modified 10 Years ago.

Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro?

Youngling Posts: 2 Join Date: 8/11/11 Recent Posts
Hi!

I'm building a home theater and for the audio I have got 5 x Genelec 8030A for the main channels + Genelec 7050B subwoofer and an Onkyo PR-SC5508 preamplifier-processor.

Question: Should I route the main channel signals

a) according to the Genelec default configuration i.e. from the pre-pro to the 7050B sub and from there to the main channels or

b) directly from the pre-pro to the main channels and to the subwoofer?

The reason for asking is that the Onkyo PR-SC5508 employs Audyssey MultEQ® XT32, which gathers frequency and time-domain measurements to compensate for the speaker distances and room response, which works quite well. Logically thinking, it would seem that the option b) would allow more degrees of freedom for the pre-pro to optimize as it can adjust also the phase of the subwoofer in relation to the main channels.

Would you agree to the logic and what would be Genelec's recommendation?

Thank's!

Regards, Pekka
ilkka-rissanen, modified 10 Years ago.

Re: Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro?

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi Pekka,

Thank you for your question! We get similar kind of questions quite often, especially now when more and more Genelecs are sold also to Hifi/home users. Unfortunately there isn't a yes/no type of answer available, but I'll try to shed some light on the issue.

As you know, in the past most of our speakers went to professional type of applications where bass management is basically a non-existent feature on the other devices available in the studio. So if we wanted to have a bass managed system, it needed to be built-in to the speaker system. The additional plus is that the end result is more reliable and predictable since we know the full system.

In a home (theater) environment things are slightly different. Modern AV receivers are well capable devices with lots of cool features, which can be used to improve the overall sound quality of the sound system if employed properly. The down side is that usually the fully automated procedures are not as smart as they claim, which may cause some additional problems and degrade the sound quality. But if used properly, I would recommend using the bass management found in these devices.
nik2010, modified 10 Years ago.

Re: Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro

Youngling Posts: 6 Join Date: 12/18/09 Recent Posts
Ilkka

Many thanks for your response which answered my question as well! 3 follow-on questions if I may resurrect this thread.

1. If using the pre-pro for bass management, which input should I use for the sub - LFE In?

2. What bandwidth setting on the sub should I use? 85 or 120? Does this have to be the same as the cross-over setting on the pre-pro (my pre-pro has cross overs at 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160 and 180)? If it can differ, does the sub have to have a bandwidth setting above the cross over? Could I ever use the 80 Hz cross over with the 85 bandwidth setting on the sub? Or the 60 Hz cross over?

3. My sub also has room correction software. Should I first do a coarse phase adjustment using the sub's dip switches or is that unnecessary if the pre-pro has audyssey?

regards

Nik
ilkka-rissanen, modified 10 Years ago.

Re: Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Ilkka

Many thanks for your response which answered my question as well! 3 follow-on questions if I may resurrect this thread.

1. If using the pre-pro for bass management, which input should I use for the sub - LFE In?

Correct.

2. What bandwidth setting on the sub should I use? 85 or 120? Does this have to be the same as the cross-over setting on the pre-pro (my pre-pro has cross overs at 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160 and 180)? If it can differ, does the sub have to have a bandwidth setting above the cross over? Could I ever use the 80 Hz cross over with the 85 bandwidth setting on the sub? Or the 60 Hz cross over?

If you will be using the pre-pro for bass management, you want to have the subwoofer playing as high as possible, meaning you should use the 120 Hz setting. I suggest this setting whether you will be using 60 or 80 Hz crossover. What main speakers and subwoofer do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

3. My sub also has room correction software. Should I first do a coarse phase adjustment using the sub's dip switches or is that unnecessary if the pre-pro has audyssey?

Your sub has a room correction software? So it's not an analogue Genelec subwoofer?

I suggest performing a coarse phase adjustment before running Audyssey.
pekka-v, modified 10 Years ago.

Re: Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro

Youngling Posts: 2 Join Date: 8/11/11 Recent Posts
Hi! Thank's Nik and Ilkka! When setting up my system, I was wondering which input of my 7050 sub I should use to route the signal from my Onkyo pre-pro sub output. I actually selected one of the 7050 main channel inputs (instead of the LFE) and this sounds just fine (once the Audyssey has eq:d the system). Ilkka, am I experiencing some disadvantages because of this choice i.e. should I change?
nik2010, modified 10 Years ago.

Re: Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro

Youngling Posts: 6 Join Date: 12/18/09 Recent Posts
Ilkka

Thanks for your clear and comprehensive reply. My main speakers (L/R) are 8040s. At the moment I'm using a 8030 as a centre. I will be using 8020s as surrounds once I get it all hooked up. Perhaps the 7070 is a little over-specced and the 8030 centre should ideally be an 8040, but I've accumulated my Genelec kit over a number of years for different purposes and am only now putting it together as part of an HT system. I hope that the 8030 will be a sufficient match as a centre given the same tweeter size as the 8040s and with bass management kicking in above the lower levels of the 8030s. However I'd be interested in your views!

I made a typo re room correction. It is the pre-pro which has the Audyssey, not the sub (which is analogue).

One good reason for using the sub for bass management is that I can then, for critical listening, set the pre-pro to by-pass all its electronics (but that by-passes the bass management as well, and I'd be loath to cut the sub!). I think I'll experiment with both set-ups.

Thanks again

Nik
ilkka-rissanen, modified 10 Years ago.

Re: Bass management in the Genelec speaker system or pre-pro

Yoda Posts: 2564 Join Date: 3/23/09 Recent Posts
Hi! Thank's Nik and Ilkka! When setting up my system, I was wondering which input of my 7050 sub I should use to route the signal from my Onkyo pre-pro sub output. I actually selected one of the 7050 main channel inputs (instead of the LFE) and this sounds just fine (once the Audyssey has eq:d the system). Ilkka, am I experiencing some disadvantages because of this choice i.e. should I change?

You don't need to change but you might want to test if LFE input gives you any better result. The main channel inputs have a fixed low pass filter at 85 Hz which is then "doubled" in the pre-pro, assuming that you are using an 80 Hz or so crossover. This may cause some problems in the crossover area. It is always recommended to use the LFE input and 120 Hz setting when performing the bass management in the pre-pro.