Genelec Community Forum has been archived

Thank you for all the years of Community discussions and activity!

The time has come for us to retire the community forums, but we will keep everything available for reading. There is a lot of valuable content written over the years, and you'll be able to access all of that. However, no new posts can be written, or old posts modified.

If you have questions, we recommend you use the Support function on the bottom right corner to contact our Customer Support directly.

Alternatively, if you wish to engage in a community discussion with other people, there are many active forums available. There is also an active, fan managed GENELEC COMMUNITY in Facebook, and many Genelec employees are active in the discussions there.

We are sorry for any possible inconvenience this may cause you, but we hope to hear from you through the other channels mentioned above.

Genelec Support

Message Boards

All digital home theater setups?

django, modified 4 Years ago.

All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 8 Join Date: 2/16/10 Recent Posts

Hi

I am planning to setup home theather with Genelec SAM monitors. Only thing is that I haven't found options how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu. I would like to keep signal path all digital if possible. Does anyone have similar setup here and what components you have in it? Or does anyone know how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu to feed Genelec SAM monitors.

stefan75, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 16 Join Date: 3/18/17 Recent Posts

Hello

What will your source be?

Bluray players hdmi audio output needs to be decoded before it can be converted (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI).

I found some results searching for "hdmi aes ebu converter"... doesn't look very mainstream though.

The question is if these devices can do volume control, speaker setup/size/distance, room correction, etc.

And AES/EBU tends to be for studios = expensive ;)

cu

manutal, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Jedi Knight Posts: 180 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Ive got a 9.3.4 setup with genelecs (1238A,1238AC,1237A,8351As & 7380A as subs)

What you need is a Trinnov altitude 32, you get 16 channels out via aes3 signal to the monitors with a DB25 adapter/connector.

It supports hdmi 2.0 hdpc 2.2 nowadays, got my unit updated. It had the old hdmi board and buffer board switched out at my reseller .Really good support etc with trinnov. It's expensive sure but Im glad I bought mine now. No need to update in a loooong time..

More info:(+ find a reseller in your country for even more info etc.)

https://www.trinnov.com/products/home-theater/altitude32/introduction-altitude32/?lang=en_us

django, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 8 Join Date: 2/16/10 Recent Posts

Hi

Thank you for answers. Trinnov is technically just what I am looking (hdmi -> streams decoded -> aes out) for BUT it seems to be really expensive. I have to admit that it is out of my budget currently. Does anyone know is there similar solution but with lower price level? I am sure that Trinnov is top-of-the line and offers all the what is needed. I am planning to use GLM calibration so that is one thing which I don't need in receiver.

manutal, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Jedi Knight Posts: 180 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

I dont believe theres any other solution at the moment. Trinnov is coming out with a cheaper model or stripped down model of the Altitude32.

It's an Altitude16 but it doesnt support multichannel aes or digital out..

Save some $$ and go for the altitude32, believe you me you wont look back xD

 

jamieu, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 6/5/17 Recent Posts

There's also the Datasat RS20i (bascially the consumer version of the Datasat AP20 which you'll find in lots of commercial cinemas and screening rooms)

http://www.datasatdigital.com/consumer/products/rs20i.php

But like the Trinitov recommended above, it's not cheap (~€20,000)

I can see what you want to do, but mixing HDMI and AES in a consumer setting is a pretty niche requirement.

 

 

 

 

talex, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Padawan Posts: 41 Join Date: 8/27/15 Recent Posts

Hi Django,


I'm also building a digital home theater, or better said a hybrid one.


The digital path of the equation has a PC with an PCI Express multi channel AES board, such as the RME HSDPe AES: https://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdspe_aes.php connected to the digital in of the monitors.

How this works for movies for example:
- you either stream the file or play a local blueray
- the video player (i'm using Jriver) decodes the digital audio stream and sends it to the RME board that sends AES signal to the monitors. a good player will not touch the singal besides decoding it.
- the video player decodes the video signal and send it directly to the display

So in this setup there's no AV processor as the middle man. Each stream goes directly to it's destination. Depending on how smart the PCI Express board is, you might also need the Genelec 9301A interface to do bass management. It's just a sum across all channels, so the PCIe board can potentially do that also.

For music this works the same way, music is digitally transmited from the PC (Tidal, Apple Music, etc.) to the speakers via the RME Board unprocessed.

The main limitation of this is that you cannot do Atmos as there is currently no PC Atmos software decoder. So this setup works for up to 7.x.


To go around the Atmos limitation, i will also have a analogue path trough an AV Preamp such as the Marantz 7704.
I'll have other sources connected to the AV Receiver. The AV Receiver will decode Atmos and feed the monitors with analogue signal. The monitors then do AD and DA conversions, which of course is not ideal, but that's life. 

So depending on what i'm doing i'll be able to commute in GLM between the digital signal chain and the analogue signal chain. The Genelecs will be wired for both.
Displays also typically have two inputs so one will be connected to the PC, the other to the AV Preamp. 

If you can live with not having Atmos and you can play all your content from a PC, i'd say you're good to go.
I dont have all this running in practice yet, i just have the digital path working, pretty happy with it and i'm in no rush of getting the preamp... :-)

Even more, let's say you have other sources that want to accomodate. 
If those sources can output stereo via optcal (or even extracted from HDMI), and you're ok with stereo, you can optical out of those sources, convert to AES via a cheap optical to AES converter like the Hosa optical to AES and then feed the signal trough the RME board's inputs.
These inputs would be mixed with the other sound sources from the PC so you can control what goes trough.
I have a playstation 4 that is wired like this and i can hear the stereo mix on my monitors whenever i turn it on. 


What do you think of this?
It's a bit of fiddling, but if you want to stay in the digital domain, it's doable.

django, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 8 Join Date: 2/16/10 Recent Posts

Hi talex,

Thanks for detailed answer. Your proposal is not bad at all because in first phase I am going to setup 7.1 (or 7.2) home teather system. I will extend system to Dolby Atmos or similar when budget is ready for it. I already have Mac Mini as a server so I have to do some research about multichannel interfaces for it. In best scenarion I am going to use Genelec SAM subwoofer to sum signal and route to speakers. I think your proposal could work perfectly because it allows playing music from same source.

talex, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Padawan Posts: 41 Join Date: 8/27/15 Recent Posts

Dear Django,

I think that Genelec suwoofer summing only works for analogue signal not for digital. (someone please correct me if i'm wrong). 
The subwoofer must somehow receive, in the digital realm, the LFE channel + a sum of all other channels. The subwoofer will then filter everything above the cutover frequency and render the bass in the LFE channel and the bass for all channels.
This sum can be potentially done using the summing / routing function of the AES interface or via the Genelec 9301A interface.

I also have a Mac Mini, but found the PC option more flexible due to being able to use internal PCIe cards.
At the time of my purchase, RME and Lynx had two options for internal AES cards with many AES channels. I went with the RME due to supposedly better sofware support (could not test both), but i'm pretty happy with what the card software offers. Wish i had the chance to also see the Lynx in action.
There were also external interfaces offering multiple AES channels, but were much more expensive than the internal ones, as they had many other features that i did not need. So maybe it's worth looking at what is now available as external options.
If options are still limited / expensive, an option could be to still get a PCIe card and use an external PCIe box to the Mac mini thunderbolt if such setup is supported by RME or Lynx. Theoretically this would allow the Mac Mini use the PCIe cards.

Good luck with your setup. Do share your experience along the way, this is an interesting area where we could all benefit from other people's experience.

I think all digital home theaters are the way to go. I really hope Genelec looks into somehow providing a product to improve usage of this Atmos scenarios, which from my point of view is the only reason to get an AV Receiver nowadays...

 

gurux, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 19 Join Date: 12/1/17 Recent Posts
 
Samu Collan:

Hi

I am planning to setup home theather with Genelec SAM monitors. Only thing is that I haven't found options how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu. I would like to keep signal path all digital if possible. Does anyone have similar setup here and what components you have in it? Or does anyone know how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu to feed Genelec SAM monitors.


You will be surprised to hear that there is a much easier and cheaper way to achieve this with a very popular disc player - I am talking none other than the mighty Oppo, the videophiles' sweetheart, the reference video player which has been around for ...15 years?  

 

Get a 203 or a 103 or even some of the older ones, buy a VanityHD card from the Dutch dealer (see the link in my post below, in red), modify it for AES/EBU output (you have to short three small bridges on the board), DIY three 110ohm cables with dual RCA to XLR (I contacted Vovox for a custom job and they were very helpful) and you are good to go! 

 

 You can do a basic setup on the Oppo (speaker distances, levels etc), you can set a slightly higher than normal digital volume on your Genelec's and then use Oppo's digital volume control to adjust it, you can even use your Oppo as a Roon endpoint with your music collection / Tidal subscription.

 

It's not all perfect, Oppo's latest UHD players offer mediocre video performance (reviewers and fans will try hard to persuade you of the contrary but I know better because I've had them all), there are still problems with their firmwares and the worst of all is that Oppo has just dropped a bomb: they announced yesterday that they're abandoning the home theatre business so the 203 will be the last of its kind and probably minimally supported in the future. 

 

Also I am cross because the 205 is better built and delivers a better performance overall but there are no custom cards / AES mods for 205 and it would probably be overkill, considering that the main selling point for the premium priced 205 is its analogic performance. I wish there was a 205 with AES / EBU outputs and I would have certainly paid the money but I would probably be one of very few interested in this sort of mod so I have zero hope to see one, especially now that 203 and 205 are being abandoned by the manufacturer. 

 

 

gurux, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 19 Join Date: 12/1/17 Recent Posts
 
 
Samu Collan:

Hi

I am planning to setup home theather with Genelec SAM monitors. Only thing is that I haven't found options how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu. I would like to keep signal path all digital if possible. Does anyone have similar setup here and what components you have in it? Or does anyone know how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu to feed Genelec SAM monitors.

So if you are happy to invest in an obsolete product get a 203 now, while they are still available, buy the VanityHD card, install it and enjoy. It's a 1500€ job but much cheaper and more convenient than the alternatives. It clearly beats my Marantz AV8802A and NAD M17, both of them well respected and not exactly cheap. You lose Atmos, Dirac (on the NAD), the convenient analogic volume control, HDMI switching and all the other bells and whistles but the pure, untouched digital stream is a joy to hear through the Genelec's (I have the 8341). 

And probably the perfomance can be taken one step further with a linear power supply, a custom clock, better shielding etc - the modding community for Oppo is strong and the possibilities are endless.     

I used to have a headless Auralic Aries connected to the AES/EBU input of my 8341 and the M17 to the analogic inputs, the TV would require ARC and the M17, my Apple TV also connected through the M17, a Harmony remote control, many cables, a lot of space, a complex setup. 

Now it is 203 into my Genelec. HDMI video to TV, HDMI audio disabled (makes a small but visible difference for video). The rest of my toys are connected directly to the TV and Oppo ouputs their sound digitally via ARC.  

If I want music I turn on the player and fire Roon which recognises it as an endpoint. If I want TV I switch the Oppo Input to ARC. If I want video I switch to the player. The musical performance is at least on par with the excellent Auralic Aries. The video performance is typically Oppo, solid. The multichannel audio performance is the best I have heard from my Genelec's so far. 

For me it's a no brainer for the money and I will try to hold on to this player for as long as possible, although with HDMI 2.1 and 8K around the corner it might not be long before it really becomes obsolete. Still, in theory you could use its HDMI input purely for digital audio in the future, like a receiver, if your next player will have dual HDMI output. 

 

svart-hvitt, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Padawan Posts: 35 Join Date: 5/6/16 Recent Posts
 
Samu Collan:

Hi

I am planning to setup home theather with Genelec SAM monitors. Only thing is that I haven't found options how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu. I would like to keep signal path all digital if possible. Does anyone have similar setup here and what components you have in it? Or does anyone know how to convert hdmi -> aes/ebu to feed Genelec SAM monitors.

Hi, wouldn't this box from Arvus give you all you need?

https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/av/arvus_group_announces_release_of_worlds_first_7-1_hdmi_to_aes_ebu_audio_con/

It's a 7.1 HDMI to AES-EBU converter. Users include all big audio corporations like Dolby, Sony, Microsoft, DTS, Samsung, Christie, Pixar, Disney, GDC, Kinoton, Qube, DataSat, Hoyts, Kodak, CBS, AT&T, Ubisoft, Rockstar North, Galaxy Studios, BBC, Air Studios, Capcom, SingTel, Park Road Post, BluRay Audio Disc.

It costs about US$1700

I don't have any experience with the Arvus converter. Maybe somebody has tested it?

gurux, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 19 Join Date: 12/1/17 Recent Posts

I would expect it does the job but, as it uses the now obsolete HDMI 1.4 profile, you would either only be able to use this with an older 1080p TV, or you would need a dual HDMI output source, a 2.0 for a 4K TV and a 1.4 for sound. And will this work with immersive sound formats (DTS:X, Atmos, Auro)? Probably not.   

On top of this the price is a hefty 2250£ in UK. 

The only complete solutions - AES / EBU multichannel, volume control, advanced room calibration (Dirac, Trinnov), immersive audio support, are the DataSat and Trinnov pre/pros to my knowledge.  

queena, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 5 Join Date: 7/18/18 Recent Posts

I am planning to set up home theater for the better watching experience. From what you discussed, it seems more complex than I thought.

Hey, I 'm re-editing this thread since I have a high definition movie on my computer and I want to burn it to DVD for playback on TV. Maybe you have any video to DVD converter recommended? One with which the movie suffering less quality loss are best! 

ulamax, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Youngling Posts: 1 Join Date: 7/18/18 Recent Posts

smileyDon't worry, you can learn much from this. There are many people can give you hands.

You could watch an ISO movie file on the computer as long as you install a virtual drive. But if you wish to share the movies with your friend and families, it is better to burn ISO to DVD and then play them on TV.

jani-oksanen, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: All digital home theater setups?

Jedi Master Posts: 449 Join Date: 3/30/17 Recent Posts

Someone posted comment below, that unfortunately was deleted by accident. We have the original message, but not the name who send it. Sorry about that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want music I turn on the player and fire Roon which recognises it as an endpoint. If I want TV then switch the Oppo Input to ARC. If I want video I switch to the player. The musical performance is at least on par with the excellent Auralic Aries. And i want to add that I am having microsoft outlook not implemented any suggestion to fix it.

 

At the time of my purchase RME and Links had two EAS card options with several EES channels.I went better than the RME due to sofware support (can not test both), but I'm very happy that the software software presents.Desire was also an opportunity to see Linux.I have Mac Mini, but being able to use the internal PCI card,& PC options found more flexible.At the time of my purchase, RME and Links had two EAS card options with several EES channels.I went better than the RME due to sofware support (can not test both),but I'm very happy that the software software presents.Desire was also an opportunity to see Linux.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------